Rwd 3s (sucess!)

[essaysixtythree]

Hi all, I have just got the 3sge started today and I have a few questions. Firstly I should explain it is a gen 1 3sge in an sa63 celica. Im using a 32/36 weber dgav on a (very home made) manifold. It only has the cast headers on it at the present and when i fire it up it seems a bit rough and doesnt really want to rev up. Is this because I have no back pressure or a problem with the carb somewhere? To solve the dizzy problem I cut a section out of the old 2s cam and attached it on the rear of the intake cam of the 3s. Then cut up the top section of the head off the 2s to get the dizzy shaft guide and bolt hole, drilled a hole in the side of the 3s intake cam cover and got the guide welded on. I have heaps of photos of the dizzy set up but they are all to big to attach. Can someone help with this if i email them the pics?

Cheers, Jason

[CrUZida]

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[essaysixtythree]

Cheers had to shrink it down more than half. Anyway spent most of the day eliminating vaccum leaks and fiddling with screws on carb. Im in a bit of a catch 22 as the guy at the exhaust shop wants it driveable but im having trouble getting it running anywhere near smooth without an exhaust on it. Are there any weber gurus out there that can give some tips on tuning????


edit: ok it seems the pic is tiny

[essaysixtythree]

Ok that might be easier. Photo of engine bay and photo of distributor drive gear.

[jfallen]

Keep in mind that a 32/36 weber is good for about 125BHP MAX, which is 10BHB less than a factory gen 1 3SGE. So straight off the bat you're 10BHP down, BEST CASE. Now that 125BHP is usually only realized on well tuned 1600cc KENT racing motors used in formula ford. More typically you'll be getting around the 110BHP MAX. So now you're 25BHP down on factory.

with fixed venturis of 26mm (main) and 27mm (secondary) giving a total cross sectional area of 1103mm^2 (or the equivalent of a 37.5mm throttle body (or less then the size of one of your inlet ports .) Keep in mind there are secondary venturis where fuel is actually added taking up space and reducing pressure / flow further + choke flap. You can probably see where this is going... There's a reason they didn't work too well on 3.9L falcooooon engines, and it's the same reason it's not going to work too well on your 3SGE.

The 32/36 DGV is a good old Battle Axe for your 1300cc 4k, or even your stump pulling 2000cc 18R-C or Pinto. However it's useless for a 3SGE on a (poorly?) designed inlet manifold and is terribly undersized. If you want to stay carbies, which I recommend as carbies are infinitely cooler than fuel injection. You're best off fixing your exhaust problem and sourcing a pair of 40mm PPH solex's off a 18R-G and spending a few $$ to have a manifold made. These will free up plenty of horsepower (140BHP+ on a factory tuned 18R-G form the 70's,) sound awesome and be very tunable.

Good luck on your super cool carbie 3S-GE in a 60-series celica project.

Jordan

[essaysixtythree]

Thanks for the input mate. I drew up a plate to suit the 3s inlet ports in autocad and had it laser cut then got a mate to weld some 50mm lengths of exhaust piping to it. This is connected to the old 2sc downdraft manifold via rubber piping and many clamps. Then home made adapter plate sits the 32/36 on the old manifold.
So yes I have the potential for twin sidedrafts using the lasercut plate but no cash for a pair of solexs. Also time is an issue as uni starts soon. Will the 32/36 have enough punch to get me about for a while or should I scrap it and save my pennies?

[JustenGT8]

You welded a gear drive onto the end of the 3S cam? I think that has a very limited life expectancy.

How's your ignition adv?

[essaysixtythree]

Seems ok. It has a single vacuum advance from dizzy to carb but I cant really be sure if its functioning properly as i havent really got to rev the engine up and I have had vacuum leaks everywhere.
The drive gear isnt welded. The shaft on one side is machined to fit the bearing cap that used to house the distrubutor shaft. On the other side the shaft has tabs cut in it to fit the slots that already exist in the 3s intake cam. So its held in place by the bearing cap really. It might not last. Oiling may also be a problem. Im sure il find out soon enough

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

Simple, run twin 32/36's ! Balancing them might be a bit of a trick..

What about EA falcotron TBI and a megasquirt? Or getting the 3sge efi gear and chopping the manifold down?

[jfallen]

Will the 32/36 have enough punch to get me about for a while or should I scrap it and save my pennies?

It'll work in the same way that installing Q-Dos on your brand new Core-i7 computer will work. You'll be able to do all the basics, however when it's all said and done you'll feel that something is lacking and generally underwhelmed. You'll then realise that time and effort could have been better spent installing something a little more modern (factory fuel injection) or fit for purpose (DCOE's.)

You should be able to pick up a set of solex's reasonably cheap. Contact user Starfire, I know he's got 2 x 18R-G PPH40 solex's (Type T? roger) that's he's not going to be using any time soon. And since you've gotten this far I dare say rigging up a set of linkages would be child's play.

Like I said, carbies are awesome, and mad respect for going down this rather quirky road, but you need fit for purpose, and a 32/36 DGV is not fit for purpose on a 3S-GE. You're short selling yourself of even factory levels of power. Good luck.

Cheers
Jordan

P.S:

Simple, run twin 32/36's ! Balancing them might be a bit of a trick..

Would be awesome to see, but if you knew how the DGV throttle linkage is you'd reconsider saying this. Yes it is possible (new manifold, and custom linkages,) but would be a bastard to do.

[JustenGT8]

Seems ok. It has a single vacuum advance from dizzy to carb but I cant really be sure if its functioning properly as i havent really got to rev the engine up and I have had vacuum leaks everywhere.
The drive gear isnt welded. The shaft on one side is machined to fit the bearing cap that used to house the distrubutor shaft. On the other side the shaft has tabs cut in it to fit the slots that already exist in the 3s intake cam. So its held in place by the bearing cap really. It might not last. Oiling may also be a problem. Im sure il find out soon enough

Ah that sounds better...complicated but better

[jfallen]

^^ Justin you're the master of over complication

Jordan

[JustenGT8]

^^ Justin you're the master of over complication

Jordan

What's complicated about UZ + turbo = powah?

[essaysixtythree]

Simple, run twin 32/36's ! Balancing them might be a bit of a trick..

Madness. Dont put ideas in my head. There is barely enough space for one.

Well yes people, i agree I have come this far I should do it properly. When I read up on 32/36s everything said it would be good for a mild 2000 and thats as far as i looked into it. But I can see the sense in going down the twin solex path. It would also eliminate all the mess of rubber piping.

It'll work in the same way that installing Q-Dos on your brand new Core-i7 computer will work. You'll be able to do all the basics, however when it's all said and done you'll feel that something is lacking and generally underwhelmed. You'll then realise that time and effort could have been better spent installing something a little more modern (factory fuel injection) or fit for purpose (DCOE's.)

Factory fuel injection would sit about half a foot out the top of the bonnet otherwise it would have stayed. Rwd 3s=Pain.

What about EA falcotron TBI and a megasquirt? Or getting the 3sge efi gear and chopping the manifold down?

Chopping down the manifold was talked about. But really you cut off the plenum your left with a cast plate with cast runners attached to it that point to the bonnet. What do you do with that? That was why I drew the intake plate up. I think il source some solexs when I get scholarship money and connect them up to my plate with silicon piping or something of the like. But for now im gonna park it on the lawn and leave it. Head down to uni and use whats left of my funds to buy a nice mountain bike.

P.S. My dad has a diahatsu handi van. 3cyl 800cc. Perhaps the 32/36 might like that???

[jfallen]

My dad has a diahatsu handi van. 3cyl 800cc. Perhaps the 32/36 might like that???

Would need some smaller jets, but now you're thinking

Jordan