Preferred camshaft degreeing kit????

[oldeskewltoy]

1" Travel Machinist's Dial Indicator



Delivers precise readings to one-thousandth (.001) of an inch
Bezel adjustment: 360°
Lug back positions: 90°; increments
Revolution counter hand
Dial face: 0-100 and 0-50-0"
Meets or exceeds A.G.D. and Federal specifications
$14.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...Itemnumber=623

[oldcorollas]

looks ok but what is the accuracy? (not the reading divisions)

[SeptemberSquall]

y are you trying to measure initial movement and degreeing your cams in to total duration?
why not just set it up based on actual lift at tdc? or do you not have those specs

[jeffro ra28]

ALL relavent cam timing events that you have should be checked. Regardless what spec, at .050", totaly duration etc, it doesnt matter. Chech them all!
Why check one thing if the cam grind is fucked/worn/wrong etc?

Iv measured brand new cams on cam doctor that where 5 degree's out between each lobe. Just measure and check EVERY spec you have available if you can!
More often then not on an extremely consistant cam some specs on the card will be wrong and some right to what your measurements read. Its important to find the happy medium between them. To do so check every available practical specification.

EDIT: sorry, not having a go at anyone. Has nothing to do with cam degree equipment i know, just trying to clear up some things mentioned in the thread. Cheeers

[SeptemberSquall]

fair point.

[oldeskewltoy]

ALL relavent cam timing events that you have should be checked. Regardless what spec, at .050", totaly duration etc, it doesnt matter. Chech them all!
Why check one thing if the cam grind is fucked/worn/wrong etc?

Iv measured brand new cams on cam doctor that where 5 degree's out between each lobe. Just measure and check EVERY spec you have available if you can!
More often then not on an extremely consistant cam some specs on the card will be wrong and some right to what your measurements read. Its important to find the happy medium between them. To do so check every available practical specification.

EDIT: sorry, not having a go at anyone. Has nothing to do with cam degree equipment i know, just trying to clear up some things mentioned in the thread. Cheeers

VERY good point!!!! I was assuming the cam to be correct!!! BUT... for the sake of arguement... since I am tuning this on a dyno.... Isn't my main concern here to get it close to spec and then adjust/tune from there based on what the dyno shows(and what I want)????

[turbo4agte]

If your going to dyno tune them, all you need to be is close.

The point I think jeffro was trying to make is some people go by the cam card just because its TRD or HKS etc.. and automatically trust it, then when you put the cam in some V blocks and actually make your measurements based on the cam itself, some of the specs on the card will likely be off. Which I aggree with. Might as well set your timing based on actual measurements of the cam itself, and disregard what the cards say.

I think thats one of the main keys behind people claiming power losses on the internet after they "drop in" cams.

[oldcorollas]

and, just to be sure, check your base circle too... you might be surprised

[amichie]

If your going to dyno tune them, all you need to be is close.

.

My god. Somebody talking sensibly.

[jeffro ra28]

LOL. So say your cam has massively varying lobe profiles? Would 5 degree's be close to you? Half the reason is to find the happy medium between all lobes...... If you dont check all data points that you have available how do you know your cam is dialled in even close? One aspect of the data you have may be spot bt the other aspect may be way out. You would be suprised how un uniform and how far from supposed specs the cam lobes can be. I have a few cam companies that i trust because i have tested many of their cams on the doctor and they have all been perfect. Some are just hopeless. The OEM cams i have seen have been avarage.

Can you afford to spend hours and hours dyno tuning them to experiment between all available cam timing adjustment points? Most GOOD cams are designed to make peak HP with the cams dialled in at zero, depending on what the engine combo is ofcourse. May i say that this will particularly be the case with this engine because it isnt anything totally over the top and is basically a nice improvement over stock. If you dial them in properly and check for lobe consistancy to start with then atleast you know were you are starting from and know for curiosity sake what works well with the engine.

No shortcuts............

[turbo4agte]

The way I see it is all you need to be is close because nothing beats real world results. If your trying to tune cams, fuel, and ignition on the dyno and want to penny pinch by the hour, your wasting your time. Another issue is your eventually going to get a little stretch in the new timing belt after a few cycles. I dont know if those new special kevlar belts are any different.

[amichie]

The way I see it is all you need to be is close because nothing beats real world results. If your trying to tune cams, fuel, and ignition on the dyno and want to penny pinch by the hour, your wasting your time. Another issue is your eventually going to get a little stretch in the new timing belt after a few cycles. I dont know if those new special kevlar belts are any different.

More sense.

If someone says your cam has lobes ground with phase errors then most likely its just been measured inaccurately.

Cam degreeing kits are really only required if the head and/or block have been excessively machined or you just want to measure the grind of an unknown cam.

Don't waste your money.

[jeffro ra28]

If someone says your cam has lobes ground with phase errors then most likely its just been measured inaccurately.

Ummm yeah $6000 of precision camshaft measuring equipment and its "inaccurate". LOL

"Cam Pro Plus is accurate. The standard rotary sensor measures to 1/10 degree. The standard linear sensor can resolve 1 micron (0.00004 inches) . Available upgrade sensors boost resolution to 1/40 degree and 1/10 micron."

http://www.audietech.com/cam-pro-plus/cam-pro-plus.html

[amichie]

I'm sure the machine that grinds the cams costs even more.

[jeffro ra28]

Yes, with some cam companies using flogged out fucked cam grinders made in the 70's.
Besides, isnt it all about the operator? Its much easier to measure a cam then it is to grind one