4AGE info, where to find?

[DigitalPho3nix]

You'll probably find the stock 4AGZE pistons are actually quite good; they are ceramic coated and (relatively) cheap as chips from your local toyota parts dealer.

Just remember that you can easily get carried away with these things. I know a guy who (shamefully) spent just under $100k (not a typo) on his N/A 4AGE race engine for his Westfield and the gains you get with each mod get smaller and smaller for more and more cost.

[Devils]

yeh, trust me... i know that feeling

I like to do all my work on paper first and then i go about working out prices etc. That CA build up there cost me around 8k with alot of my own time going into putting the engine together etc.

Maybe some of you may find this site handy... http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/ then click on calculations!!!

[oldcorollas]

Ok so the starting engine is a 4AGZE.
I've got a MoTeC M48 that i may use, otherwise i use Adaptronic ECUs.
I would probably do a similar build to one of my CA18DETs which was the following.

Crank was shotpeened, counterweights knife edged and whole thing race polished.
Forged lightweight rods, and forged light weight pistons. All full ballanced with a lightweight flywheel.
The block was over bored 1mm.
The block and head were "o-ringed".
Pistons were .5:1 more than stock items.
Normal 'modified' head gasket was used due to o-ringing the block.

Head was skimmed to bring the compression up another .5:1.
Ports were simply de-dagged.
All new valves and stiffer springs.
Slightly more aggressive cams.
Custom intake plenum.
Then all the usual performance bolt ons!

err. that sounds like a magazine shopping list, no offence intended...
race polished?

shotpeen crank if you feel the need..
use the big AE92 rods with later GZE pistons.
if you feel the need to dump $2K on rods and pistons.. feel free
can't go too big on bore or there may be issues (search for them in recent threads)
no need for o-ringing unless you will have high boost.
no need for fancy gsaket if you use stock metal one.
just clean up ports, nothing fancy (choose bigport or small port depending on rpm and boost planned)
valves... bigger if you have money and nothing else to do with it.

cams... ALWAYS choose cams based on intended rpm range..
plenum, make a nice one. (fully kustom )

err... what other "usual performance bolt ons" are there? exhaust manifold and turbo?

moral of the story: KISS. there is no mystery to building a good 4AG, you just need to actually read up on some peoples members rides, and search around the net a bit. there have been approximately 11tybillion 4AG's built around the world. plenty of recipes to follow. choose your power output (100, 200, 300, 400kw) and rpm (8000, 9000, 10000, 11000) and then build to that level.

[Devils]

Lightweight and/or underdrive pulleys. Boost controller. ECU. What you said... tuned length manifold, rebuilt turbo, 3" straight through exhaust, intake, high flow filter with a cold air feed, intercooler.

Tell me this... if i was rebuilding an engine from scratch, why would i re-use secondhand items when i can buy new ones that are possibly better?

For my CA the rods cost $700 and the Pistons $600 at trade. I would have thought that they would be around the same price if not cheaper for the toyota!

The 7rib block can take another 2mm so i don't think 1mm over size will be bad? Anyway, you can always sleeve it.

o-rings save head gaskets when running high compression and high boost, for $20-50 a cyl why not!

I'm impressed that Toyota use stock metal head gaskets, are they single or multi layer?

I've got pics of the CA build up if you would like me to post them up!?

[Adsport]

there have been approximately 11tybillion 4AG's built around the world.

ahhahahah


*points to ride thread*

[3sgte]

I'm impressed that Toyota use stock metal head gaskets, are they single or multi layer?

When Toyota uses metal headgaskets, they are generally multi-layer steel.

Some late model A series engines have metal gaskets, I cannot speak for 20V 4AGs.
Perhaps someone could confirm this.

Having said that, I know of at least one exception, the 1995 onward Tercel/Paseo 5E-FE in North America used a thin single-layer copper gasket.

[30psi 4agte]

ahhahahah


*points to ride thread*

Now that is cool !!

+rep


Devils : Something which i think will be valuable to you is. The 4agze is unlike any other motor around.

The internal hardware they come with from the factory is second to none ! The rods are awesome, pistons forged (que discussions again )with ceramic coated crowns and they can handle an absolute beating !

Where you would need to make internal changes to say a ......CA18 to make some decent reliable grunt. The fact is....

You dont need to do anything bar a GOOD rebuild with the std stuff to make more power than you will need.

[Talasas]

^ NOW we are getting somewhere. 30psi 4agte is someone you should also listen to, he has much experience when it comes to "strength testing" 4A engines. Hell, he's probably the first person I've seen rebuild engines more often than change oil and definitely the only person I know who would put a "quick release" engine loom to good use

Save youself some money and do some of your own R&D. Buy a Gen 3 4AGE and give that a run first to see what beating it can take. If you blow it up then you'll have a good idea of what it can handle, then you can spend the money to fix the weakest link in your case.

Trust me, most people make out quite well with minimal changes to the engine, engines like Takais race motor, various turbo 4AGEs and such have a lot in common in the core areas in terms of strength. What may differ is your choice of CR for boost or not, and your engine management.

[oldcorollas]

Lightweight and/or underdrive pulleys. Boost controller. ECU. What you said... tuned length manifold, rebuilt turbo, 3" straight through exhaust, intake, high flow filter with a cold air feed, intercooler.

Tell me this... if i was rebuilding an engine from scratch, why would i re-use secondhand items when i can buy new ones that are possibly better?

For my CA the rods cost $700 and the Pistons $600 at trade. I would have thought that they would be around the same price if not cheaper for the toyota!

The 7rib block can take another 2mm so i don't think 1mm over size will be bad? Anyway, you can always sleeve it.

o-rings save head gaskets when running high compression and high boost, for $20-50 a cyl why not!

lightweight pulleys have little use on a GZE.
1) you may kill crank pulleys due to cracking (as observed in recent threads). perhaps a crank nose support bracket is in order?
2) underdrive pulleys? will you rev the SC motor to 9000? unlikely. underdrive will not (usually) be needed or even wanted, esp for street motor.
3) boost controller and ECU are not performance bolt ons.. they are necessary components

the CA is a very commonly modded turbo motor. there are many aftermarket suppliers and the volume of parts is likely higher than for FI 4AG applications.
GOOD rods and pistons are not cheap for aftermarket... there are cheap ones tho
"possibly" is the keyword here... but if you can find good quality rods/pistons for under $1K.. why not

the stock toyota parts will be heavier. perhaps by 200 grams for the piston/rod, but as mentioned, they are very strong.

83mm bore? hmm... don't they crack around there?
did you see the recent thread on sleeves regarding the remaining strength of block?

o-rings don't save headgaskets.. they replace them it is a different sealing system and o-rings should not be used with stock (normal type) gaskets.

not trying to have a go at you , but you may need to rethink your approach, comng from nissan to the GZE... things should be simple and done for a purpose..

then again.. if you want to build a supercharged motor with alloy undriven pulleys, lgihtweight rods and pistons and whatever.... why not (but it probably doesn't need it unless you are shooting for 250-300kw atw)
edit: you will be wanting twinscrew if you are wanting above say 12-14psi, and any decent revs from the SC motor. an M45 or M62 might be a cheap halfway measure, but if you are spending a few K on the rest of the motor.. you may as well invest in a good charger.. looks for ronrobs posts..

[DigitalPho3nix]

Lightweight and/or underdrive pulleys. Boost controller. ECU. What you said... tuned length manifold, rebuilt turbo, 3" straight through exhaust, intake, high flow filter with a cold air feed, intercooler.

So which is it? Turbo or S/C?

Straight thru exhaust is illegal on the road, and 3" straight through is WAY too big for a 1600. I'd be looking at 2.5" max.

Tell me this... if i was rebuilding an engine from scratch, why would i re-use secondhand items when i can buy new ones that are possibly better?

Yes, but the stock Toyota items are suprisingly very good (but not the best obviously).

For my CA the rods cost $700 and the Pistons $600 at trade. I would have thought that they would be around the same price if not cheaper for the toyota!

For stock Toyota parts, yes they are much cheaper. For aftermarket ones, I'd be quoting larger figures than that. The drift fad has put premiums on pretty much all 4AG parts.

The 7rib block can take another 2mm so i don't think 1mm over size will be bad? Anyway, you can always sleeve it.

But why? Only bore it out if you really need to.

The way I see it, you really need to do some searching and ascertain what you want to achieve in this engine build. Are you building a race engine that will last 6 races before it needs another tear down, or building it to last on the street?

Where is your powerband in your rev range?
What boost are you aiming for?
What power are you aiming for?
Whats your budget??? 4AG's are expensive little suckers when you REALLY get to work on them.

(I sound like an echo of OldCorollas here.... )

Don't forget there are plenty of gains to be made elsewhere in the car, especially in your tyre choice and suspension.

[Devils]

Devils : Something which i think will be valuable to you is. The 4agze is unlike any other motor around.

The internal hardware they come with from the factory is second to none ! The rods are awesome, pistons forged (que discussions again )with ceramic coated crowns and they can handle an absolute beating !

Where you would need to make internal changes to say a ......CA18 to make some decent reliable grunt. The fact is....

You dont need to do anything bar a GOOD rebuild with the std stuff to make more power than you will need.

Thank you kind sir!!! That's what i wanted to hear!

Damn i want my AW11 here now. If i had it now, i'd most likely be outside pulling something off it to fix up or modifying something!

[oldcorollas]

for some amusement, read this thread
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forum...php/t8023.html

300-400kw from 4AG.. in a suzuki sierra.. for hillclimbs.... = reality check..

[Adsport]

why neg rep me for my post??

how the fark do you think the rest of us learned what we know?? by f*cking searching !

bad form , completely bad form.

[Adsport]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk

[oldcorollas]

why neg rep me for my post??
how the fark do you think the rest of us learned what we know?? by f*cking searching !
bad form , completely bad form.

it's pretty ironic to neg rep someone with the car and engine that you are searching for information about


maybe he didn't get the "points to members ride thread" part of your post???