Intercoolers for 1G ra28's?

[Snyper]

Same, I picked up the cooler with the 3" outlets, ad am now going to have to "reduce" them...
would this be better done on the 90 degree bend, say do a 3" to 2.5" 90 degree, or do it on the straight?
into a ra23 btw

[TA-022]

dont see a real world diff wether on the straight or bend .. a restriction is a restriction.

but i dont think for what people have gotten out of a 1G that it will pose any threat.

[psi_guy]

To revive this thread a bit if I may...

Firstly, to kinda follow up on the last few posts - not entirely on topic but nonetheless possibly helpful (btw, last post, - rip Nathan ) My dad bought one of the first releases of XR6 Turbos... back then there were reports on the fordxr6turbo.com forums that each one of the 90degree bends in the intake pipes posed the equivalence of 3m straight pipe pressure drop/restriction... (there was talk of revising the piping dramatically amongst those searching for power) food for thought?

But back to real cars lol, I have a question about intercooler design

To all 1g 23/28 people (EDIT: i'm talking about front mount air-to-air coolers) - will you/are you using 'bar and plate' or 'tube and fin' style?

It seems to me from scanning through the members rides that the majority of people have not informed on what they are using.

I ask because for my own project, I was initially going to use bar/plate, as I figured they don't flow as well internally (compared to tube/fin) but they can handle a larger internal flow (better for boosting it up).
I thought it wouldn't matter as this restriction would be offset by the external air rushing through it (being a front mount).
But nowadays I am thinking more tube/fin, as by the time the bumper, number plate and grill cover it all up (am going for sleeper look) I want something that has less resistance to internal flow, thus doesn't need the greatest of external air flow to work as efficiently.

Does that all make sense? What are your thoughts???

[Cuts]

One 90 deg bend = 7% preasure drop.
When i had my ra23 with the series 6 13b turbo i put the cooler where the rad usually sits, and relocated the radiator behind the cooler, hung it off some brackets. The core size was around 500 long (perfect fit for the hole) abour 250 high and 70 deep it think, it had 2.5 outlets which wasnt a hasstle as i just made some reducers, 2" from turbo to cooler, then 3" to throttle body.

from my experience (185 RC and 205 group A) ive found the fmic to be better in pretty much every way, lighter, less complex, dont have to take off the tmic just to do little things like change plugs (in the gtfour instance).
The throttle responce is fuck all different, pretty much none at all.
Gtfours did start off as wta then ata then wta again, but then if you think about it they went back to ata for the caldina.
And the last nail in the coffin, yes water scrubs heat 30% better then air (give or take) but you still need to use air to scrub the heat from the water (as in the heat exchanger) so either way your still using frontal airflow, just one method uses another meduim between the oncomming airflow and the air going into the engine.

[psi_guy]

Cuts, Cheers for the info. Where did you get that 7% from?

Also... dunno if you were replying to my post or the older ones, but i was talking purely about front mount air to air coolers. (ill edit that in)

[o_man_ra23]

Cuts, the advantage of WTA is that spikes in air temp are culled quite nicely, and you have a more even intake air temp where the temp is pretty much the same for no boost and high boost instances alike. It gives more predictable throttle response.

Another sneaky trick afforded by WTA and not by ATA is that you can instead of running a heat exchanger to air, run one through iced water which can get your intake temps well below ambient (somewhat like dry ice intakes) while again maintaining driving predictability.

Of course FM ATA is cheaper and simpler, and you dont have to worry about moving things around to get to your plugs, which is why most people seem to like it.

[Cuts]

yeh im talking purely about front mount ata too, its just a general overview of all of the posts hehe, i get the 7% from my work, im a fitter and turner (and grade 1 aircraft engineer) and knowing a bit of fluid dynamics never goes astray.

True you could put ice in a wta cooler, but how long would it last? one run at the drags, maybe 3 minutes of street driving. And true it would be more steady because the water will absorb more air, but like i said you still need to get the heat out of the water as quick or quicker then the water absorbs to get any benifit on the street.

Dont get me wrong i like wta coolers and toyota and a few other manufactures must have used them for a reason one being that if you get in a stack or whatever the expenisve most critical part of the system is out of harms way. Another being that it makes an easier package to drop into the car for mass manucaturing, as they sit nicely on top of the engine. But who (car manufactures) are using wta coolers on their latest models? not many...

[o_man_ra23]

If you have enough ice in the water (Fill the container with crushed ice before adding zero degrees water... just above freezing) and you will get a reasonably good run out of it. Should be good for your average sprint race, and maybe a bit more.

The overall cooling ability of an ATA and WTA system are the same, as long as you have the same amount of air fins and air volume in the atmosphere heat exhanger parts. But the WTA system will work better when you need it most, which is high boost/high RPM in lower gears (less airflow). When you dont need it so much (higher gears, lower boost/RPM) the ATA works better. Remember that its when your working your car the hardest that you need the fastest heat dissapation, and the WTA system will remove the built up heat from that high intensity burst later when your not working it as hard.

[Cuts]

In the case of gtfours, the pump doesnt go when your at a stand still, it only starts up when you are moving, meaning that in traffic or while staging for a drag or circut race the water is heating up because of heat soak from the engine. And its not too often your in a high load/boost situation at a low speed.

anyway i think we are gettin a little off topic, how about we agree to disagree and let the man make his own decision on the points we have offered.