Brake Upgrade - XT130/RT132 Strut with Nissan Alloy Caliper - Research Stage

[twentyEight]

Background

Currently I'm using RT132 struts in my RA28 and was going to venture down the path of the tried and true Corona/Pug/Hilux brake conversion, but after feeling the weight difference between the Toyota Hilux LN106 4 piston caliper and a Nissan Z32 TT 4 piston caliper, I have decided to try a different path...


Purpose

I would like to find a disc that fits similarly to the original XT130/RT132 disc that suits either of the following alloy calipers:

Nissan Z32 NA - 26mm
Nissan Z32 TT or R32 GTS-T - 30mm
Nissan R32 GTR - 32mm
Nissan R33 GTS-T - 30mm

Current Research Findings

Original XT130/RT132 disc specifications:

266mm x 12.7mm with a total height of 42mm, a 76mm centre hole, and a 4 x 114.3 PCD (Solid)

Volvo S40/V40 disc specifications:

281mm x 24mm with a total height of 46mm, a 69mm centre hole, and a 4 x 114.3 PCD (Vented)

Nissan S13 disc specifications:

280mm x 22mm with a total height of 49mm, a 68mm centre hole, and a 4 x 114.3 PCD (Vented)

Nissan Z32 NA disc specifications:

274mm x 22mm with a total height of 35.5mm, a 81mm centre hole, and a 5 x 114.3 PCD (Vented)

Nissan Z32 TT or R32 GTS-T disc specifications:

280mm x 30mm with a total height of 54mm, a 68mm centre hole, and a 5 x 114.3 PCD (Vented)

Nissan Z33 (350Z) disc specifications:

296mm x 24mm with a total height of 49.2mm, a 68mm centre hole, and a 5 x 114.3 PCD (Vented)

Conclusion

So far it's looking as though the best combination, for ease of installation, would be the Nissan Z32 NA (26mm) caliper with a Volvo S40/V40 disc which will prevent the need to have the disc re-drilled to suit the 4 x 114.3 PCD...

The next easiest option is the Nissan Z32 NA (26mm) caliper with a Nissan Silvia S13 disc which will also prevent the need to have the disc re-drilled to suit the 4 x 114.3 PCD...

The third option is the Nissan Z32 NA (26mm) caliper with a Nissan Z33 (350Z) disc, but this setup would need to have the disc re-drilled to suit the 4 x 114.3 PCD...


Notes

Obviously, a custom bracket would need to be made to fit either of the above mentioned calipers, but I don't think this is too big a deal in most people's eyes...

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

i was under the impression the z32 na disc was 26mm thick, not 22mm? ..I shall have to take a gander at the rda catalog again.

EDIT: Nope, i'm wrong. s13 disc with z32 n/a caliper seems not a bad swap. Main concern now is the thickness of the spacer/caliper adaptor?

[Cuzzo]

Im looking for a better upgrade aswell as i want to see the difference between a heavy ass hilux caliper handleing to a alloy type.

[WDE_BDY]

Isn't the 130 series disc attached from the rear? In which case the disc bolt pattern is likely to be different to the wheel bolt pattern so you are probably up for redrilling anyway.

Callum

[twentyEight]

i was under the impression the z32 na disc was 26mm thick, not 22mm? ..I shall have to take a gander at the rda catalog again.

According to DBA they're 22mm, but the caliper has a 26mm allowance, which is quite strange...

[timbosaurus]

Nice work Simon!

I'll jump on this bandwagon too, as I've had the parts sitting there waiting for the right disc option to come along.

I've got the R33 GTS-T calipers (32mm) and IIRC the discs that I got with it are 280x32mm which made me think they were actually off a Z32. I'll have to check though.

I tried many a way to fit these discs to the stock 28 hubs (turned down hub, redrilled 4 stud), but nothing even looked like working elegantly.

If we make up a bracket to mount the caliper onto the stock hub mounting points, the disc will need to sit roughly inline with the face that the stock disc mounts to (this uses 4 studs, but not 4x114.3 pattern). So I was hoping to come across some decent size (and price) two piece rotors (ie: from a skyline) with has a flat mounting centre hub/plate thingy and the same bolt pattern as the celica disc. This isn't likely at all, so was going to use just the disc and get a piece of flat alloy plate laser cut to suit.

Anyone know a reasonably priced 2-piece rotor (even if it is just the disc half of it?)

[twentyEight]

The problem with using the RA28 hub and strut is the total height of the disc as you and I were talking about over the phone...

According to DBA, the RA23/RA28 disc has a total height of 16mm... That doesn't sound at all right...

RA23/RA28 Celica disc specifications:

254mm x 12.7mm with a total height of 16mm, a 73mm centre hole, and a 4 x 114.3 PCD

[barned01]

so far the setup i am working with is an RA60 strut+BA Falcoon (5 stud) rotor+ms65hub.
this setup will be for an RA40.
I don't know how close the RT132 strut is to an RA60 in terms of angle of spindle to strut, but you could use the ra60 strut instead (the RA60 makes positive camber in an ra40, i assume the RT132 doesn't as it never gets spoken about in the c/p/h upgrade). The beauty of the ra60 strut is that it is compatible with the nissan caliper bolt spacings so if the ra60 strut is identical to rt132, that would be the first thing you would want to do as all you have to worry about is spacers rather than specific brackets (if it is the same issue i am having with camber then sigma control arms or different crossmembers should get you out, both these topics have been covered elsewhere).

next is the 4stud/5stud arrangement. I have reason to believe the ra40 (23/8) hub has a different height to the ms65 (ms65 is more) so there might be a slight difference in the thickness of the caliper mounting spacer between the 2 but that should be all.
And the beauty of the ford rotor....they are plentiful, can be bought as a blank (and redrilled to 4 stud to suit), and cheaper to replace than a nissan R series rotor generally, and the higher hat height of the rotor makes the spacer not need to be so large to mount the caliper.
one other thing which i hit a hurdle on (but nobody else has ) is that my engineer wouldn't approve the amount of meat you would need to take off the center of the hub to fit a ring around it to match the nissan's 68mm centre hole (the fords is a much larger centre hole so not as much meat needs to be remved if at all to match the hub centre to the rotor centre hole).
I have this all assembled in my shed and it was just all bolt together stuff (still need to get the ring created to centre the rotor but that is all).

also are you sure on the r33gtst thickness, the rotor i have at home is 30mm thick and without looking i think DBA also confirms this. you may actually have the r32gtr caliper which i think was a 32mm thick rotor.



If BA is too big a diameter, i have a funny feeling AU is smaller diameter but same dimensions height wise and thickness.

[barned01]

also the height is correct twentyeight but that is because the disc on a 23/8/40/ms65 is mounted to the back of the hub (already mentioned).
Not a disc over hub arrangement as you are trying to construct.

[twentyEight]

Yeah, the RA60 Strut with the Z32 TT caliper is a really popular conversion (http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=239), but the problem is it creates Positive Camber on the early Celicas... (I'm led to believe)

I'm sure there's probably an easy way to overcome this Positive Camber, but I haven't seen it yet...

[barned01]

see above for edited post
I will be doing a ke70 rack and crossmember conversion which adds ~2deg negative camber according to TA022.
OR
Sigma control arms add a few degrees negative (I think Hen calculated that)
OR
Adjustable camber tops should dial a bit out especially in combination with one of the above two options

[twentyEight]

I too will be doing a KE70 R & P conversion so I can fit my 3S-GTE, and I will also be using Adjustable Camber Tops, but I wan't to have as much adjustment as I can get without hitting the positive mark...

[timbosaurus]

The problem with using the RA28 hub and strut is the total height of the disc as you and I were talking about over the phone...

According to DBA, the RA23/RA28 disc has a total height of 16mm... That doesn't sound at all right...

RA23/RA28 Celica disc specifications:

254mm x 12.7mm with a total height of 16mm and a 73mm centre hole and a 4 x 114.3 PCD

As mentioned above, the celica disc doesn't have much of a... i dunno... bump in it. If you sit it on concrete, it probably only sits that 16mm high, while the next closest in the DBA catalogue that I found was something like 30mm or so. Most are around 50, while I think skylines were about 60/70mm from memory.

These work well for disk over hubs, but for the skyline discs at least, the hub needs to be machined down to fit inside the disc, and the extra metal in that big bump would be at least a kilo each side.

I am hoping to find a way of keeping the disc mounted on the back of the hub (like factory) so there is no need to machine down the hub or get new wheels studs.

[The Real Roadrunner]

cant be done using less than a 298mm rotor due to the xt130 strut ears interfering with the caliper,.
how do i know because im doing it this very minute.
if you want to use a 280mm disc you will have to use a bracket that bolts to the orig strut and due to the way it all monts up its extremely complex in design.
the rotor needs to go on the back of the hub as the caliper will hang out too far for most 4 stud rims to clear unless you run a spacer of some sort.
i can give more info if you have specific Qs
cheers
linden

[timbosaurus]

I dunno if my paint skills are any better than my words skills

But this is what I mean when I say use a 2 -piece rotor on a custom flat allor adaptor mounted to the back of the hub.

Simon, I'll show ya on the weekend or something