3sGTE Intermitant 30-40% power loss

[worldwalker]

ok, I've gotten around to doing the timing and it now has an error code stored. Code 21, DX indicator. What the hell is a Dx indicator? And the timing needed to be moved all the way BACK to full retard to get it at 10deg BTDC. Now that doesn't make sense to me. Why retard timing to go 10deg advanced?

Edit: Just took the car for a run and its driving like a dog. It was running MUCH better with the timing set at about 30deg BTDC. Its now hesitant off boost, it retards back past 10deg BTDC if you try to blip the throttle. I cant blip the revs up on downshifts it just coughs and revs creap up maybe 100RPM instead of the 500RPM I was getting ealier. Its generally just a dog. A real sluggish dog.

Edit/Edit: Thinking about the car running better with an over advanced timing gives me the indication that the fuel is FAR to rich. So when its set to 10deg BTDC hardly any fuel is being burnt on the ignition stroke, giving crappy running, poor fuel economy.

This is backed by the point that the car SEEMS to run fine as boost builds passing through 2400-2700RPM, so where a normal engine would lean out a little through this phase my car is leaning back to what it should be at.

Can anyone back this or disprove it? I'd like to think I've nailed the problem so I can fix it and move on.

My final query is why is 10degBTDC all the way to one end on adjustment? I mean, there is NO chance of getting it to go any further retarded.

Any ideas?

Thanks for all the help

Nick

[Mr Revhead]

sounds like dizzy put on one tooth out or something
possibly the outer ring on the crank pulley has slipped, causing the timing marks to be out. thats not unheard of on toyotas.
get the manual and follow the procedure for setting it at TDC

[gee120]

i agree with the just above poster, and just to add my 2c worth.
Code 21 as stated in my manual says Oxygen sensor signal.
Trouble Area: Open or short in Oxygen sensor circuit, oxygen sensor, open or short in vacuum sensor circuit, vacuum sensor or ecu

Hope this helps

[worldwalker]

IS that an australian model? The jap models code 21 is the DX indicator. The O2 annunciator is not lighting up.

Edit: Code 21 is the o2 sensor. Dont know why the list I had said Dx Indicator. Also mechanic thinks the cams may have slipped a tooth. If thats the case I'm guessing its happened after hitting boost cut.

[gee120]

somebody feel free to correct me if im wrong here but i would assume that it shouldn't matter whether it was a Jap model or australian model the error codes in the ecu should all be the same

[worldwalker]

there apparently is some difference between the UK model and the jap model, but in any case this is what I suspected from the start. The only annoying thing is that someone left work and I got stuck with stuff he forgot to cancel so now I cant go to work tommorrow because I'll need to fix this before I can drive anywhere.

I've tried to clear the codes on the ECU but after a night with the fuses pulled (forgot to put them back in) its still saying code 21 even without starting. I take it that the o2 must now be in a closed loop and completely dead?

This engine problem is a real pain in the arse, but I know if I take it to a good mechanic he'll be able to diagnose it in a matter of minuts. Any advice on a good trustworthy mechanic in the eastern subs of Melbourne? I'm in Wantirna.

thanks for all the help.

Nick

[worldwalker]

Anymore advice guys? I've got a couple more days off to play with it... At this stage I'm going thru replacing everything.

[Mr Revhead]

have you checked the timing like i suggested?

[worldwalker]

ok, I've gotten around to doing the timing and it now has an error code stored. Code 21, DX indicator. What the hell is a Dx indicator? And the timing needed to be moved all the way BACK to full retard to get it at 10deg BTDC. Now that doesn't make sense to me. Why retard timing to go 10deg advanced?

Edit: Just took the car for a run and its driving like a dog. It was running MUCH better with the timing set at about 30deg BTDC. Its now hesitant off boost, it retards back past 10deg BTDC if you try to blip the throttle. I cant blip the revs up on downshifts it just coughs and revs creap up maybe 100RPM instead of the 500RPM I was getting ealier. Its generally just a dog. A real sluggish dog.

Edit/Edit: Thinking about the car running better with an over advanced timing gives me the indication that the fuel is FAR to rich. So when its set to 10deg BTDC hardly any fuel is being burnt on the ignition stroke, giving crappy running, poor fuel economy.

This is backed by the point that the car SEEMS to run fine as boost builds passing through 2400-2700RPM, so where a normal engine would lean out a little through this phase my car is leaning back to what it should be at.

Can anyone back this or disprove it? I'd like to think I've nailed the problem so I can fix it and move on.

My final query is why is 10degBTDC all the way to one end on adjustment? I mean, there is NO chance of getting it to go any further retarded.

Any ideas?

Thanks for all the help

Nick

Posted up the top must read.

[Mr Revhead]

sounds like dizzy put on one tooth out or something
possibly the outer ring on the crank pulley has slipped, causing the timing marks to be out. thats not unheard of on toyotas.
get the manual and follow the procedure for setting it at TDC

thats what im talking about....
actually checking that when the pistons are at tdc the timing marks are where they should be etc

[worldwalker]

Went through and it was at TDC at the timing mark for TDC, just tried to check the cams but I couldn't see the timing marks on them. Plus a couldn't get the cam cover off all the way becuase of the engine mount jamming it.

The other thing that doesn't make sense is that the car runs TOO well to be out a tooth. It idles perfect revs perfect but it cant handle any load at all. Even WOT in free rev and it struggles.

[Mr Revhead]

have you checked the manual for the procedure to make sure its at TDC?
it sounds exactly like its running a tooth out.

as for your code 21, did you pull the correct fuse? d/c the battery to be doubly sure

[worldwalker]

Cleared code by poping the right fuse. yes its at TDC if it wasn't if has slipped a tooth I highly doubt it would idle at all. It idles and free revs fine it just cant take load. Its compression is fine.

I still dont get how it could be a skipped tooth if this problem started as an intermitant problem and would run fine 90% of the time. Now its back to running fine 10% of the time. If it has skipped a tooth its a mechanical fault which I would thought would result in a problem 100% of the time.

[abently]

I think it may be time to take it to a mechanic specialized in the 3S-GTE..........

If you can't be bothered to check all the basics then there's really no point just guessing....

[worldwalker]

I've checked all the basics and nother has come up. And I cant find anyone who specialises in 3sGTE's in melbourne that can look at it this week. I need the car running ASAP.

I've checked everything that has been suggested but nothing has helped. The only things that I havn't done are fuel filter, and injectors. I'm running through the workshop manual now and I keep coming back to the same items.

I will recheck and confirm the cam timing again, but I just had it dumbed down for me and in answer to my question, it will idle and free rev fine because its a low comp engine etc etc.