Twincharge GZE vs 3SGTE

[mullett]

Tossing up between these two packages for my AW11. Not sure how much more the 3S weighs, but I imagine they'd be fairly similar by the time you've added all the stuff to twincharge the GZE. Options:

4A-GZE, rebuilt, forged pistons.
SC14 supercharger, re-coated (hi-temp) rotors
T3(?) turbo
External gate
Microtech
Rebuilt gearbox, new clutch/flywheel

Total cost: 4-6k

3SGTE, gen3
Stock, but can use the gearbox etc as my AW synchros are knackered...

Total cost, 5k (ish)

So what does everyone think? I'm leaning towards the GZTE for the sake of easy registration, something different...etc

RM.

[oldcorollas]

how much power do you want to get out of each?

[4agte]

twincharging might be more of a headache but an sc14 twincharged would be simply awesome!!

[mullett]

Either way, aiming for about 300rwhp, daily drivable and reliable.

RM.

[myne]

The 4age is supposed to weigh ~125kg complete, a GZE shouldnt be much more than that.
A 3sgte was around the 180kg mark from memory.

Just drop a 4efte in the front

[BeRad]

take the blower off and wack a largish t28 on the 4agze solves a million problems with twin charging

[mullett]

Lag is NOT my friend...I've been in a project GZE with a T28, and I don't want to have to deal with that much lag...hence the twincharge...

[oldcorollas]

either way, to get that from a 4AG (225rwkw) you will need to do some decent work, and be running maybe 20-22psi of boost. flynsx got 240kw recently.. you need that size turbo and that level of work.
is that reliable?
twincharge is nice, but unless set up thoughtfully, will just be a pain and extra weight.. esp for a daily driver, you MUST get the transitions between SC and turbo correct.

225rwkw from a 3S is an easier proposition, since a 3S is 25% larger than a 4A...

the two realistic options instead of twincharge are,
buy new GT series turbo that is correctly sized.. reduces lag and still has lots of top end.
buy a twinscrew SC, have no lag and still have lots of top end.

either way will be very good, but the SC will have less lag than even a correctly sized turbo.

are you confident the MR2 will be fine with 225rwkw? drivetrain?

3S seems to be more likely to be more reliable as it will be under much less stress...

[mullett]

Yeah, I've thought about drivetrain stress, but the box itself in the GZE is very tough. Synchros on the other hand...Transfers for twincharge was something I thought very carefully about, but in the end I decided with a HKS style setup...simply blow the turbo thru the SC (hence the re-coated SC rotors)
Minimises extra plumbing and messing around with one-way taps, and makes very easy work of the piping. As for motor strength, I think it'd be fairly similar, because it'd be a semi-built 4A compared to a stock 3S motor, the GZE having forged internals and lightening/balancing/strengthening work.

Hmmm....

[davedave]

I think either way, you better add at least 2 extra grand on each of those cost estimations =)

Edit: and some useful information, maybe... you really can't go past the torque of a 2L compared to a 1.6. Even off boost, my SW11 picks up very nicely, in any gear.
Highway driving is now bliss, I don't even think of dropping gears to overtake.

And I agree with oldcorollas, the two engines putting out the same power, the little 4A will be working a lot harder than the 3S.

[4agte]

a 3sgte is the best bang for buck in an aw11

[myne]

Out of intrest how much longer is the 3s+box than the 4a setup?

[mullett]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying about torque. That was why I wanted to keep the SC and go twincharge. It does seem like the 3S conversion is a lot less headaches and a more user-friendly package, and on the plus side I have a GZE motor and gearbox to do with what I will Which is always cool. What kind of money does everyone think it'll cost to get the 3S in there (aside from the cut itself)

Cheers, RM.

I think either way, you better add at least 2 extra grand on each of those cost estimations =)

Edit: and some useful information, maybe... you really can't go past the torque of a 2L compared to a 1.6. Even off boost, my SW11 picks up very nicely, in any gear.
Highway driving is now bliss, I don't even think of dropping gears to overtake.

And I agree with oldcorollas, the two engines putting out the same power, the little 4A will be working a lot harder than the 3S.

[davedave]

But, the 3S requires fabrication, a blend of driveshafts (both sw20 with ST185 outer CVs or 2 rocking horse shit 4AGZE short ones with a SW20 intermediate shaft) and wiring harness trickery.

Apparently CharlieMR2 (don't know if he's on the new forum) and BBBBrad (NZ guy) did it without fabrication using the 4AGZE gearbox mount. I can't verify this though other than "that's what they told me".

4AGZTE = Bracket and piping trickery
3SGTE = a fair bit of work

[davedave]

Out of intrest how much longer is the 3s+box than the 4a setup?

Nothing against a 4AGZE's E51, but a bout a billion times the 4AGE's C52

FWD E series gearboxes = good
FWD C & S series gearboxes = poo