Twincharge GZE vs 3SGTE

[4agte]

e series = sore back

[myne]

Uh so it's about the same if you've got an E box?

Gze short driveshafts+halfshaft are rare are they? Nice to know. I have some on my car

[davedave]

Your 'short' shafts are actually different length, for a 3S conversion, you need two of the short ones (can't remember if it's the passenger or the drivers side though). 4AGZE's are not 'equal length' drive shafts.

So, to do the conversion, you'd need another one of the short ones - and my guess is that you're not going to give your one up to someone else - just like everyone else isn't =)

[wiso]

coulnd't you possibly uses the 4agze e51 box with a belhousing off an mr2 box to mate up to a 3s motor? then you could use the standard mr2 drivshafts, bieng all e series boxes bellhounsings have the same patterns

[davedave]

If you're getting a E153 bellhousing, you might as well get the whole thing. Unless your E51 has LSD and the LSD equipped E153 is too exxy for you.

The passenger side 4AGZE driveshaft must by the short short one then, which would mean it would be fine in both boxes. But you'd need the sw20 intermidiate shaft to mate with the mount points on the 3SGTE and then you'd need another short short shaft as the drivers side 4AGZE shaft would be too long.

The 4AGZE shafts fit the E153 box, hubs and SW20 intermidiate shaft fine, the SW20 shafts are the right length, but they do not fit the hubs. Hence it's easier to get the SW20 shafts with the half cut you buy (because if you're attempting this - you will buy a half cut!!! - unlike me who learnt the very hard way) and fit ST185 outer CVs which are locally available.

[mullett]

Yeah, it sounds like the way to go. So the two main fab things are the driveshafts, and the engine mounts? After that just need to plumb cooler, do wiring, etc. (can you just pull the whole engine loom, and what gauges don't work afterwards?)

Oh, and I've heard that the LSD from the AW11 GZE box is adaptable to the 3S box and vice versa. Anyone back this up? I've got a great LSD in mine, and I'd like to keep it.

RM.

[davedave]

Simply put, both the AW11 and SW20 looms are in two pieces (an engine loom and a body loom) with the main difference being that the AW11's engine fuse box is on the body loom and the SW20's is on the engine loom.

One of the SW20's ECU plugs come from the body loom (again, can't stress enough to buy a half cut to do this job) where as the AW11 intergrates via the 'N1' connector on the body loom, (which used to connect to the AW11 engine loom, but will now mostly connect to the SW20 ecu via the plug that you cut off the SW20 body loom.

The final product will be that all your gauges will work fine, just a bit of wiring trickery.

If you're serious about the swap, read everything on here twice and also check out Paul Wood's conversion.

As for the gearbox, if you already have a LSD E51, then I'd be very tempted to buy a gen2 half cut (probably about $3K - go a cheap open diff one), use the bellhousing off the E153 on your E51 (check if that's really possibly, I think it is but a PIA job), and spend another 3K on a nice computer/manifold/turbo/dump/injectors - and you should be able to get all of that in and putting down 220 or so rwkw for about 7K doing all of the work yourself.

[Joshstix]

You can use both of the AW11 drive shafts with the 3SGTE swap. I wouldn't advise it really but it does fit.

As to the bell housing I'm pretty sure the entire gearbox has to be dismantled to swap them.

[wiso]

the aw11sc cv's are the same as the ST165 gt4 ones, so they should be strong enough to handle a 3sgte, maybe not a modified one though

[davedave]

You can use both of the AW11 drive shafts with the 3SGTE swap. I wouldn't advise it really but it does fit.

As to the bell housing I'm pretty sure the entire gearbox has to be dismantled to swap them.

I take it you haven't swapped your shafts out yet?

And yes, I've heard the same thing about the dismantling - I just couldn't find it in a quick search.

[Joshstix]

No I used ST165 shafts initially with the SW20 layshaft, these worked but they're about 14mm longer each than the SW20 ones and were hell to get them into the hubs etc because of this. I am now using the SW20 shafts with ST165 outers. I'm sure those 165 joints are going to break fairly soon. I probably should get some spare shafts for Toyota nationals really.

I only know about the AW11 shafts because that is how the first couple of swaps in the US were done.

I have seen pics of pulling the box down to replace synchro's and you have to go in from the end of the box then dismantle all the way to the input side. The bellhousing doesn't just unbolt of the box housing because it is, I believe, integrally cast as part of the housing.

[camrygt?]

The 165 CV's as far as I know are the same as the 185 and 205 also sv21 camry and many other SV's. surprisingly in 60,000kms I have never managed to break one with a 3sgte, over 200 fwkw's, wide tires and many runs/burnouts at the drags. Maybe RWD will put more load on them but they seem amazingly tuff

[Joshstix]

They're reaonably tough but in a mid engine rear wheel drive car making well over 200rwkw they'll be getting a hell of a work out. The bigger outer joints from the SW20 break all too often in SW20's with 200+rwkw.

I don't think the ST205 joints are the same as the stubs are different.