super charging 22-re

[RONA]

Not to mention the 7mge which has a 91mm stroke and I think mine rev cuts at 7200rpm (from what ed told me).

[Norbie]

I was told all you need to change to get that motor to rev +10000 is replace the rods and head.

Um... I think someone was having a lend of you there.

[RONA]

That or I hope he added an extra zero ie increase factory redline from 5800rpm to 6800rpm, but there ain't really any power up there without significantly worker other parts of the motor.

[o_man_ra23]

200hp is very easy out of these mills and you can help them rev much better and flow better as well. The heads aren't great from the factory but porting works wonders. There is a lot of metal that can be removed and the ports reshaped slightly.

Mate, any chance of some rough details on the port work?? Im interested cause the motor i just bought is a RA65 second gen 22RE, and ill be doing a rebuild on it before it goes into anything, so i may as well port the crap outta it while im at it, if this seems to be the limiting factor.

Cheers, Owen

[o_man_ra23]

Not to mention the 7mge which has a 91mm stroke and I think mine rev cuts at 7200rpm (from what ed told me).

That makes me think straight off the bat that the 22RE can be made to rev, albeit maybe with some lighter pistons, other lightening and balancing and better bearings, but can be done, and probably for not much more than the cost of a regular overbore rebuild(when you can lighten and balance some stuff yourself anyway).

Cheers, Owen

[Steelo]

Yeah i thought it was a bit much too 10000+!!! When I ported my head I just ground all the ridges around the seats and high spots inside the intake and exhaust.

[Starfire]

You will be well past the peak power once you got the revs up that high I would imagine. From the couple of times ive driven a 22RE I recall them being fairly flat above 4500 or so. Some heavy head work would probably fix that though.

[Norbie]

That makes me think straight off the bat that the 22RE can be made to rev, albeit maybe with some lighter pistons, other lightening and balancing and better bearings, but can be done, and probably for not much more than the cost of a regular overbore rebuild(when you can lighten and balance some stuff yourself anyway).

There's no doubt you can make the bottom end hold together at decent revs, but whether the cylinder head will do anything useful at higher rpm is quite another story. This is what people really mean when they say a 22R "can't rev". It's not that they fly apart, they just stop making power!

There's a very good reason the Yanks use a 20R cylinder head when they want to get power out of a 22R. Unfortunately 20R's aren't easily available around here, but I've heard 21R heads are very similar. Can anyone confirm?

[RONA]

You will be well past the peak power once you got the revs up that high I would imagine. From the couple of times ive driven a 22RE I recall them being fairly flat above 4500 or so. Some heavy head work would probably fix that though.

My dyno chart for a stock 22re thats done too many kms peaked at about 4krpm at 63.2rwkw. The factory peak figure is claimed to be 87kw (flywheel) at 4800rpm and peak torque of 198Nm at 2800rpm.

The power band/torque band(if you wanna call it that) is really between about 2.5krpm and about 5krpm. After that it takes ages to hit the redline at 5800rpm and just isn't worth it as its producing way more power and torque in the next gear by then.

Even with plenty of port work on the head, cams, decent exhaust and a piggy back or aftermarket ecu I really wouldn't be wanting to rev past say 6500rpm there just isn't power up that high and the engine isn't desgined to be used in that way. Physically the engine can rev that high as Norbie said (I have seen 6.4krpm on mine) a couple of times with missed shifts and in a paddock. Its held together fine but it just doesn't do anything up there.

[mullett]

That's an interesting development...I'd heard that the 20R head was good for the 22, but if you can use the 21 head, that makes everything a whole lot easier. Any more info about this?

RM.

[gianttomato]

You want a desent engine? Grab a 1G, 3S or a 2/3VZ and play. Pull one apart, look at the advances in lubrication and metallurgy, combustion chamber, fuel dispensation, etc. Accept that they are actually better engines. put one in your car. Move on.

[mullett]

No-one's disputing that they are far better engines...this is just horses for courses, a bit of fun and a cheap donor motor...

*my cats breath smells like catfood*

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

That's an interesting development...I'd heard that the 20R head was good for the 22, but if you can use the 21 head, that makes everything a whole lot easier. Any more info about this?

RM.

Okay. I have explained this before... but well I guess i will again

21R-C as what came in the RA60 celicas, it is essentially a small bore version of the early style 22R. Square intake ports and round exhaust ports. Dual row timing chain, etc.

20R has round intake ports and afaik round exhaust ports. The 22RE manifold will NOT bolt upto either the 20R or even the early style head of the 21R.

22R-E's that came in R14whatever the fuck corona and RA65's are a bit half and half. They have the late style 22R engine, but have the early style electronics. No TCCS ecu, vacuum assisted dizzy advance, etc. The motor has the same sqaure intake ports as the early style head, but it has extra bolt holes to accomodate for the EFI manifold. It also has a smaller combustion chamber and 'pear' shaped exhaust ports.


The bottom ends are quite robust... i've had mine spinning past 7000rpm but the heads are where they are put down. The intake ports are curved quite a bit. I believe it was designed to induce intake swirl for better low down torque. Probably works... but yes, bad for flow. The 20R head has ports which as with most motors, go straight into the head. The 20R has smaller valves though, so it in standard form is mostly good for the compression increase when you put the head on the EARLY style 22R.

People have messed with them. But they are truck motors.

[Wil8115]

correct the 22RE EFI intake will not bolt to the early heads. But this has also been done using the stock intake and modifing the head to accept the manifold or by building a custom intake.

have a go at these pics. you can see the required work to use the 20R with the EFI mani.
Also compare the 22R port size to the stock 20R port size.. that is not a 22R head. thats a 20R ported to match a 22R carb intake. Mine is a force feed 45mm ITB setup..
http://www.classic-celica.com/module...view_album.php

The 20R head is a much better choice for upper rpms. the ports are darn near straight. the valves are smaller but the head can be machined up to 50mm intakes/ 42mm exhaust valves. 48mm/40mm are a very common swap. the stock valves are 43.5/36mm i believe. Again, not cheap for all the parts and labour but the material & space is there.

For 200hp the 22RE head is fine. The stock rods are fine up to and past 300hp. You will however need pistons designed for boost. The stocker N/A's crack at 10psi. The 22RTE pistons have been pushed to 27psi(that i've heard of) and then the head wouldn't stay down.. ARP head studs cures that problem.

It all depends what you want out of it and how you intend to drive it. the whole trick is getting the head to flow, swap it, rework the crap out of it, etc..

BTW if any of you need anything from this side of the pond(im in the US) just let me know.

Must be nice having all those engine choices available down there. and parts incase the crap hits the fan

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

I have seen shots of the early heads welded up for bolt holes for the efi manifold. I infact made my own adaptor plate from 10mm thick alu. plate, but i didnt end up finishing that project

The 20R would be great to have here. But I seriously doubt any toyota in australia got one

N/A pistons crack at 10psi??? wow! surely its just due to the heat?

Anything from aussie im sure there is more than just me happy to help out. I know some of you guys are interested in changing your rear parkers/indicators?? for the black rear vents we got here. Imho the vents look better.

Yes, I certainly enjoy the engine choices we have here! I almost feel sorry for you guys with those strict emissions rules (CARB??)

Cheers,
James

PS. Been reading the celica-gts.com forums since 2k3