4AGE:20V head on a 16V block possible?

[LeeRoy]

Your off your tree.

From how it sounds your only after putting a 20v head on cause you think you will get extra power for not only minimal cost but also minimal effort as swapping a head is easier than swapping a whole motor.

However, your neglecting a plethora of things and should you go ahead with something like this your gunna not only be dissapointed but also end up wasting a shit load of cash.

Firstly, your 100kw motor probably has a fair few k's as most do being 15yrs old. A 20v motor complete will have lower k's.

The wiring is completely different and you wont be able to just swap your ecu for a 20ecu. Simply - it wont work. As for the head, as mentioned above the valves and pistons wont be friends and afaik the 20v and 16 v gaskets arent interchangable as they have different oil and coolant gallery positions. Your also trying to run half 16v stuff and half 20v stuff which wont work either.

As posted above it will run like shit unless you fork out for an aftermarket ecu or get yours tuned to suit. Even then, since you dont seem to be wanting forced induction there is no gains for you to have with a 16v bottom end. What your suggesting here is what someone aiming at going down a forced induction path would be looking at but you seem to want to keep it n/a.

Face the facts, either put a complete 20v or dont bother. The power increase you seem to be after is also probably achievable with a decent exhaust, and then maybe some quads or cams or both. Either way youll probably find that that works out cheaper.

- LeeRoy

[4agte]

its not like a 20v is a pricey motor

[unleashed__]

sorry for making u angry leeroy
just wanted to know

[LeeRoy]

It's ok , im an angry man

[Wedged'86]

Guess i won't ask about putting a 20 valve head on my 4ac then..........................

i'm joking you frightning bastard.

[Lukey-KE20]

You'll find this thread helpful.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19243

My suggestion in that thread, apart from trying to find out of the original poster was sure about what he was getting into, was to suggest it wasn't a good idea. I got neg repped for that.

The consensus is, yes you can do it. I still say it's not a good idea, especially if you're new to this.

Why - you'll end up with an interference engine. Whereas plenty of vehicles come from the factory as an interference engine, they have years of development applied to them. They are not built in the backyard.

What this means is if you break a timing belt you'll end up with a lot more cost than replacing that timing belt. If you're having trouble paying for a 20v, then I doubt you'll want to pay for repairing one of these after the belt breaks.

Do yourself a favour, either get a 20v or spend the money you do have tweaking the 16v.

If you want to do it anyway - then yes it can be done.

My 2c

Luke

[unleashed__]

Yes I understand it's not a free spinning engine therefore if the timing belt snaps then the valves will collide with the pistons. I just want to know if I can run a 20v head on 16v block and what needs to be obtained besides the a new ECU because I can obtain the head with all manifolds and sensors and how much extras will cost

[adamaw11]

this sounds interesting then, I dare you to ignore all the warnings and just see if you can do it. how often do timing belts break anyway??? the worst that could happen is you could end up having to buy a complete 20v engine and ECU anyway.

even better, just start working on taking the head off your 16v now, with the intention of at least getting some headwork done (port grinding, shaving etc.).

[unleashed__]

this sounds interesting then, I dare you to ignore all the warnings and just see if you can do it. how often do timing belts break anyway??? the worst that could happen is you could end up having to buy a complete 20v engine and ECU anyway.

even better, just start working on taking the head off your 16v now, with the intention of at least getting some headwork done (port grinding, shaving etc.).

thanks mate.. thats what i was thinking.. the worse thing that can happen is the timing belt will snap and I just got to fork out money for a new engine.. if I do go through with the head conversion then I'm going to replace the timing belt anyway
by the way most engines are not free spinning I think even 4AGE's arent even free spinning

[Poggy]

4ages are free spining, all 4as are

[unleashed__]

4ages are free spining, all 4as are

woops.. my bad

[MR04AG]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think the best thing you can do is just bang a head gasket in the sucker. The amount of effort that's gonna go into wiring alone (unless you're experienced) out weighs the performance gains... If you pull your head off and take it to a head shop they'll mill it for less than a hundred bucks, I think the last GE head gasket kit I bought and put on (which was 100kW in my sprinter) was only about 130 bucks. I assume i'm forgetting something, so let's say it'll cost you 300 bucks all up... that's prolly what the 20V head is gonna cost you??? then you need a partial loom, and ECU. You're prolly gonna hafta piss around fitting an air box and AFM .
If you don't have a lot of money and you pull your head off and buy a 20V one and sit it on the car will prolly sit dormant till it goes to a wrecker. I've seen it happen 100 times. Car breaks , Owner gets excited and starts project , Buys parts he/she thinks are needed , Discovers he/she needs a lot more parts/labour , car sits/ and sits/ and sits/ then a cheap AE82 comes along and bam! no more seca Lol. Sometimes it all works out in the end though... like when i do it Lol

[unleashed__]

haha thanks for your input everyone especially MR40AG..
but I still want to know whats involved to do it? My car requires a head gasket done so I thought why not put on a 20v head.. my only concern is parts needed and will it work well.. the labour does not bother me because I am mechanically minded
so can someone answer my question properly please instead of saying stuff like "it's too hard" or "get a 20v instead"
just a yes or no will do and what needs to be done instead of telling me ur life stories..
not being harsh here just want to get to the point
thanks

[oldcorollas]

yes it can be done.
it seems to be fairly often(ish) done when people change from GZE to GTE, so perhaps you could search those ideas too.

all the info abotu the details has been posted before, so please use some patience (and maybe google) to search the forum for the relevant answers.

i am not sure which HG you use, but you will need all the wiring and sensors from the 20v, AND the ECU. you can use the 16V pistons, but if belt breaks, so does engine.
you will need the MAP or AFM thatis matched to the 20V ECU, and the associated piping

if you are not planning on bigger cams, there is probably little benefit to doing it.
the 20V makes what? 10kw more than a 100kw from factory, so if you were to get the 16V head skimmed, seats recut and blended, and put in some 256 or 264 cams($200 300each for used?), then you will be ahead of the 20V already (without the quads).

basically, you neeed a complete 20V engine and loom, and then you throw away the block

[unleashed__]

ok then thanks mate.. after that might just get my 16v head service and put in some cams.. which was my second plan if the 20v head was too difficult to do