For the love of a tractor engine: The life and times of the 18R-G

[roadkill]

Maatey, she all lines up I am doing this not some dipstick hole .

hI,

i'm looking forward to seeing this completed. Realistically you only need to pin and lineup the drive shaft gear. The outer gear can realistically just flop around as it's position is determined by the drive gear and the casing.

bEn

[The Witzl]

i want to see one of these "cut-n-shut" extended oil pump gears..... i really would like to do this for my own 18R-GTE in the future. I am quite worried about a lack of oil pressure with high revs, large boost and large turbo.

[o_man_ra23]

Hey Owen,

What would be the cost per each to convert a pair of 18R-C pumps into one monster pump - including all items required to fit?? I have added an extra 3/4" to the depth of my sump, so can handle the additional length. Waiting for the full custom item to be developed in the US is getting a bit tiresome.

[S. Lowlux]

Cost ?, o man, answer is I dont know yet.
This first one is a prototype with the associated pig friggin that goes with that.
Once this is done & tested & I make a second one & get it down pat, I will be able to tell you.
Bear with me for the while. IF or when this works out I will make you one. With a disclamer mate.

Looking at the top of the pump we have an outlet hole which mates to the gallery in the block in a rather shitty fashion. That is, the gallery is way smaller. Now given the direction of flow the gallery should be the larger so that the oil does not hit that sharp shoulder & create a flow restricting turbulence. If this situation was on your intake manifold it would be shocking. I am a gonna be port that sucker. AH! so some one out there thinks this is silly, well I am looking for eenths down to a bees dick & it is only my time

Had a thought today. Put the bigger pump into Mr drinky drinky, the white ute - 18 rc. He has a timing chain noise on start up that stops people in their tracks. He is a known & an expendable test bed for the pump, but first I must fit an oil pressure gauge so that I can record before & after. If all goes well, I simply make another one for the rg.
Then yoos blokes I spose.

[o_man_ra23]

I think I have a cheapo mechanical oil pressure gauge I can send your way. PM me your address if you think it would be of use and I'll dig it out and chuck it in the post.

[S. Lowlux]

Firstly let me say, o man I humbly recieve your offer, el cheapo maybe but its the thought that counts & your willingness to get involved speaks volumes of you man.
Saves me having to pull the one off the tractor & put it back.

OH what a feeling oilpumpa
First assembly this evening, spins beautifully. This is going to work .
Just got to drill & pin the bottom gear, at the moment its just pressed on.

On the weekend I will post up some photos. Need the wifes help with that, she knows camera's & photo posting but can't weld or run a lathe. So between the two of us we become a whole. Oh yeah I cant do the dishes either:
Owen.

[o_man_ra23]

I'll try and dig it out over the weekend. I think it's in the wire basket under workbench #2. Will have to see what fittings I have for it, you may need an olive fitting or 2 (couple of bucks from Pirtek or Enzed)

[The Witzl]

you could always get an el-cheapo electronic oil pressure gauge from Ebay.
Should cost around $50-60 max.

The beauty of these is the lack of running a physical oil line - just screw this bugger into the block where the oil pressure switch for the oil light was located

Keen to see the results

Something like these below will do nicely. YOu might need an NPT to BSP tapered thread adaptor, or you might not.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-Smoke-Len...item3cb054972f

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Speco-2-Elect...item3a5e3d7b16

[S. Lowlux]

What sort of oil pressure are you chaps getting now both with 18 rc & 18 rg.
I would like to see a few answers to give me an average.

I have never had a gauge on an 18 r so dont know. Did see one figure mentioned in the forums of 20 lb. way bad in my book. My 990 David Brown tractor has 40 lb & so too my Fiat twin cam. Now there we do have a bloody good design Lampredi took ferrari formula one 1950's 60's experiance to design this little gem.

[o_man_ra23]

Never got anything other than 60PSI except at idle. The pressure limiting spring is set to 60PSI, and I haven't had a dud pump.

[S. Lowlux]

What did you do with the spring. I am heading to town in the morning & a stiffer spring is on my shopping list.
60 psi, That is good.
Remember too folks, pressure & flow are not one & the same but they are related.
If I increase my flow against a given size orifice the pressure will rise. That is with a positive displacement pump, ie gear, not impeller. The spring loaded relief is a variable orifice, so it will maintain a constant pressure as long as the pump is capable of keeping it up. So if you can maintain 60 psi you must have a close tolerance engine & allready have quite a capable little pump.

So what am I beefing it up for ?

Another thing is too much oil pressure can errosion cut slippers & stresses pump & drive. Don't know what the high end bump stop is, can anyone help ?

[river]

Hi,

...... has 40 lb & so too my Fiat twin cam. Now there we do have a bloody good design Lampredi took ferrari formula one 1950's 60's experiance to design this little gem.

Indeed, the Fiat twin cam engines were lovely engines. Coming out in the 50s with a twin cam engine was very unusual. They should of done more work on them over time 'cos when the 70s came around they were a tad underpowered for their size when compared against the equivalent capacity Toyota engines.

When you get your 18R-G singing happily you'll know what I mean.

Now, back OT... oil pressure...

The pump revving at 300rpm it should deliver 1.7litres per min @ 28psi (min)
The pump revving at 3000rpm it should deliver 24litres per min @ 43psi (min)

Oil pressure on the vehicle (taken from the oil pressure S/W hole)...
Idle Speed => More than 1.1psi
2000rpm => 49.8 - 64psi
5000rpm => 56.9 - 71.1psi

seeyuzz
river

Edit: If by "bump stop" you want to know the releif valve specs....
It begins to open 51 - 63psi and is fully open from 84 - 101psi

[o_man_ra23]

My relief valves have always been standard spring. Judging by River's spec, the spring is probably a bit weak. But it got 60PSI (18R-C pump) at around 2500rpm and stayed there. Idle once warm sat at about 10PSI.

[river]

Hi,

Remember too folks, pressure & flow are not one & the same but they are related.

If I increase my flow against a given size orifice the pressure will rise. That is with a positive displacement pump, ie gear, not impeller. The spring loaded relief is a variable orifice, so it will maintain a constant pressure as long as the pump is capable of keeping it up. So if you can maintain 60 psi you must have a close tolerance engine & allready have quite a capable little pump.

So what am I beefing it up for ?

The stock 18R-G oil pump is a very capable pump. The biggest issue is the oil pickup isn't as low into the sump as some people would like. For normal street driving and even some spirited fun and twisty bits the oil delivery system is capable of ensuring enough oil is distributed to where it has to go.

But if you want to start drifting or doing track work you can get oil starvation as it sloshes about in the sump. Lowering the pickup and putting in baffles is a solution to this problem. I think in the Williams RA23 Racing Celica they used a dry sump system to get over the oil starvation problems when racing.

A bigger pump will have to try and force more oil through the galleries and I'm not sure if the galleries are wide enough to make a big difference with a more powerful pump. As the oil pump is engine driven you could end up in a situation where the extra oil that is pumped through the engine isn't worth the drop in power to run the larger pump.

seeyuzz
river

[S. Lowlux]

From those figures that you so kindly supplied river, I think that the standard spring is ok pressure wise & o's pressures have been good with the standard spring. OK, standard spring stays in pump that goes on Mr drinky drinky, this also gives us a better idea of what the larger gears are actually doing.
One change at a time is the rule anyway, if you really want to know what is going on.
Owen.