Just how far can you go with a 2TG?

[mrshin]

2TG with carbs is old school, but will always be sooty, grumpy and thirsty. Just have to decide which you enjoy more - looking at the engine, or driving it. Personally, I love an engine that revs hard and sounds good when doing so, but I also prefer one that has a bearable idle (ever tried a P-port rotary?), although I must admit that a non existant idle from a big engine (small or big block) does sound REALLY cool, at least for the first 30 seconds!

[river]

Hi,

2TG with carbs is old school, but will always be sooty, grumpy and thirsty.

And that's why they are so beloved. Mind you, they were never grumpy when they were younger, but now they are old and 99% of people seem clueless in regards to maintaining and tuning those lovely carbs. The seals would be hard, cracked and ancient, as would be the floats and diaphrams.

A carb rebuild and retune will have the engine singing sweetly, idle smoothly, no flat spots, smooth acceleration and power delivery, better fuel consumption, and start first time all the time.

seeyuzz
river

[Turdinator]

The novalty of having an oldskool engine will wear off when some punk kid smokes you in his Susuki Baleno with hairdryer,neons and roof wing And when you pull up at the next set of lights he'll suggest to race for headjobs, cause in his mind having to give or take... Its still a win-win

Whilst i can understand your point about Baleno drivers and head jobs i think you under-estimate the potential of a 3/2TG. I have draged and beaten integra type r's, astra turbo's, six cylinder falcadores and the occasional 5lt falcadore. This engine in a lighter corolla would be quicker again. And i assure you it is an easy car to drive. I let my grandmother drive it for a day when her car was being serviced.

[YelloRolla]

Even I don't know exactly how my engine builder did it, and I cant ask him any more but I do know it cost me over $5000 1982 dollars and involved machining new pistons down and lining the block as we cut into the water galleries and yes was basically a hand grenade and soon traded for something with less power but more reliability. But was great fun in a ke20 fpr the time I had it.

Maybe they used shorter rods. 5000 bucks aint too bad though (even in 1982).

[whatthe?]

Hi,

True words, my strange red-headed friend.

If you want to race and do that sort of stuff then an old school NA 2T-G will need to be modded to the point of being almost unstreetable. A mildly worked 2T-G will give your TA22 plenty of poke and allow for some spirited driving and great fun - and be very streetable.

However, the newer engines offer much more power and potential, and you can get parts for them.

But to me, the joy of old school is going the full old school route - that is, the looks and the engine - all back to original. I let the boy-racers whiz past 'cos I know that old school is cool. You don't need to drag......... you just cruise.

It's not always about speed and burning rubber, sometimes it's about class, cool, charm and grace - and the old school stuff has that by the bucket load. It's something the newer cars just can't compete against.

seeyuzz
river

Spoken like a true Old Fart

[JUSTIN K]

Thanks to every one for the input but I don't know how people got hung up on the carb thing. The 2tg in it at the moment already has dyno sheets foe 100hp at the wheels(this is just a 1600) and while it has a flat spot low down it idles perfectly at 950 rpm and and revs to 8000 with out drama. And i agree - it's hardly difficult to drive - my girlfriend drives it regularly and I drive it to work every day!My original post refered to throttle bodies and I think that efi is what would make such an engine driveable. Interested to know more about that sean molony engine but i'm guessing it had carbs. I have seen throttle bodies and a good tune transform absolute pigs before and am sure it could do the same for a full house 2tg. Was really wondering if anyone has experiance such a set up. If not - might just be up to me to test the theory.
As for sucking off Baleno drivers - I total them already! I'm takin about the next step.

[w810sc]

I reckon if you efi your 2tg (convert it to a 2T-GEU) or even do the 3T/2T-GEU hybrid, it will be more drivable than having a twin carb setup. Drivability will also depend on what has been done to your motor, ie longer duration cams, o/s valves, o/s pistons, porting, hi compression, etc. and especially how you drive.
I'd go the 3S-GTE for a bit more poke between lights or private roads if you already total Baleno drivers.
Carbs do it for me for an old school melody, and screamer pipe for new school tune. What do you prefer to listen to?
If you do decide to change engines, how about you sell me your 2T-G so i can work it even more and drop it in another celica, because 2 is not enough.

[JUSTIN K]

won't be selling the engine - ever! huge tighe cams , o/s chev valves dual valve springs, custom flycut pistons , blueprinted everything electronic mr2 ignition, rebuild twin 40's ect ect....
Carbs sound great but sorry not as good as throttle bodies. Get the sound , the power and drivablity.

[love ke70]

and u reckon you will get another 100hp out of the motor even tho u already have all them mods....riiggghhhhtttttt

[JUSTIN K]

no porting yet and taking it to 2 litres will have big effect. couple that to programable management and even bigger cams and it's totally doable. As already stated in this thread Sean Molony has been gettihg 200hp at the wheels na for years and that was on carbs!
4 stroke tuning theory holds true for any engine of any age and have a few other tricks I would like to try to reduce paracitic drag of the ancilleries. will have to rev the nuts off it but I do that anyway

[river]

Hi,

All this talk of driveability of EFI in regards to carbs is amusing.

It appears that the great majority of people think that carbs are useless and don't make your engine work. This is of course certainly true, if your carbs are not tuned. It's also true if your EFI isn't set up properly.

Do you really think that when these engines came out all those years ago that they spluttered, ran rough, and were poor to start, and all the other myriad of problems that people associate with carbs? Well, let me tell you, they didn't. If they did - and this is for all engines for street use, whether EFI or carb - the cars would be lemons, there'd be complaints and recalls and all sorts of consumer complaints.

These old carby engines are perfect when their carbs are properly tuned. They start and drive and rev like they were designed to.

The bottom line is, if you're mechanically challenged and find carbs are too compicated for you, and you prefer a set & forget system, then get an EFI. Don't kid yourself that EFI is going to give you more power over carbs (and I mean properly tuned carbs by someone who knows what thye're doing). And don't give me the "driveability" line also, as that infers that any carby engine you have driven was poorly tuned and you really have never driven such an engine - especially something like a 2T-G or 18R-G with a venturi per cylinder.

These engines deliver fine power, no flat spots when they were built and new, and they were designed (the early model engines) for carbs to deliver that power and revs.

I'm talking about street engines for mostly street use - not racing applications.

seeyuzz
river

[love ke70]

but river, its electronic. its garanteed to make more powah!!!

[rob1]

bore and stroke it to 2 litre, go 45's and have fun.

[w810sc]

As mentioned before, we all know huge hp and drivability don't dont seem to get along. But if you have the dosh then anything is possible.

[Turdinator]

Hi,

All this talk of driveability of EFI in regards to carbs is amusing.

It appears that the great majority of people think that carbs are useless and don't make your engine work. This is of course certainly true, if your carbs are not tuned. It's also true if your EFI isn't set up properly.

Do you really think that when these engines came out all those years ago that they spluttered, ran rough, and were poor to start, and all the other myriad of problems that people associate with carbs? Well, let me tell you, they didn't. If they did - and this is for all engines for street use, whether EFI or carb - the cars would be lemons, there'd be complaints and recalls and all sorts of consumer complaints.

These old carby engines are perfect when their carbs are properly tuned. They start and drive and rev like they were designed to.

The bottom line is, if you're mechanically challenged and find carbs are too compicated for you, and you prefer a set & forget system, then get an EFI. Don't kid yourself that EFI is going to give you more power over carbs (and I mean properly tuned carbs by someone who knows what thye're doing). And don't give me the "driveability" line also, as that infers that any carby engine you have driven was poorly tuned and you really have never driven such an engine - especially something like a 2T-G or 18R-G with a venturi per cylinder.

These engines deliver fine power, no flat spots when they were built and new, and they were designed (the early model engines) for carbs to deliver that power and revs.

I'm talking about street engines for mostly street use - not racing applications.

seeyuzz
river

Carbies are more of a compromise than EFI. A well tuned EFI setup will always out perform a well tuned carb setup. If you take DCOE webers for example the compromise starts when you choose a venturi size. To get good bottom end drivability you have to sacrifice top end airflow. Then consider the weber has three main "points" it can be tuned for. Idle, transition and the main jets. A good EFI setup can be tuned down to every 10rpm or nearly an infinite number of points. Don't get me wrong I love my webers and wouldn't change them for anything. But for drivability performance and economy a well tuned EFI system is a better. Otherwise the F1 boys would still be using them.

(Sorry for the hijack)