Building a 3TGTE turbo motor

[TIMTAMS]

ok it is time to give life back to my 3t turbod KE55

Can anyone help i wanna build a strong reliable engine for around 2-3k and make around 250hp at the back wheels? is this realistic and if so where do i start? i have a stocker in it now but it has cracked pistons where can i go in sydney that know these things and what are some good things to start looking for?

Thanks in advance for any help as i am completely lost at the moment

[Jackel]

2-3k will get you a pretty good mottor. www.swmotorsport.com will get you your parts you need. Get some forged pistons good head gasket, ct26 turbo more boost. basic engine management will do. Theres lots of info on the old toymods site on upgrading the 3tgteu motor so start there for the info you need

[kugzs]

speak to yellowrolla

[TIMTAMS]

CT26 turbo? isnt that the stock one (im a noob with these setups sorry)

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

CT20 is stock I believe... CT26 is found on 7m-gte's and 3s-gte's.

[broken22]

I actually think 2-3k for a strong 3TGTE is on the low side.
How much work were you planning to do by yourself?
By the time you buy some forged pistons, bearings, gasket kit, timing components etc you would have eaten up a far bit of that budget. Then theres the machine work, balancing and hourly cost of labour. And we have not even go to the turbo or engine management.

So in reality you need to probably double you budget. I have recently finished getting my 3TGTE motor built and trust me they are not the cheapest motor to build up.

For your 2-3k budget I would get a 4AGZE motor and turbo it, you might come closer to your budget that way.

[TIMTAMS]

I actually think 2-3k for a strong 3TGTE is on the low side.
How much work were you planning to do by yourself?
By the time you buy some forged pistons, bearings, gasket kit, timing components etc you would have eaten up a far bit of that budget. Then theres the machine work, balancing and hourly cost of labour. And we have not even go to the turbo or engine management.

So in reality you need to probably double you budget. I have recently finished getting my 3TGTE motor built and trust me they are not the cheapest motor to build up.

For your 2-3k budget I would get a 4AGZE motor and turbo it, you might come closer to your budget that way.

The 3tgte is staying as its been in the car for over 10 years it has EMS engine management,custom exhaust manifold with external wastegate 32mm and a rebuilt turbo not sure of the specs but it has on 03 rear and a to4 front apparently i might post some pics and somebody might be able to tell me if its suitable. hey do you mind giving me some details on what u did in your engine build up u can pm if u want to keep it private. I dont have a prob with spending 4500 on the engine if thats what it needs but i have no idea on what they are worth or capable of.

Cheers ill go get some picks of the turbo

[TIMTAMS]

Here are some pics of the turbo...

[RiceburnaGTV]

Looks like a nice sized turbo man..

Ok I guess the best point to start from is what does your engine currently have on it? and what sort of power is she making already @ what psi?

By the sounds of what you have done already,I would suggest forgies,intake plenum off yellow rolla(runoured to add up to 35rwkw) oh you didnt mention injectors so 550cc then wind the boost up to 20psi,with tune you should be looking at around the 3500 mark and I think will reach your goal(from what I have researched so far)

When you are ready to get forgies please post up a thread saying you are doing it so we can get on the band wagon and hopefully order another 5 or so sets and get a discount.

Good luck with it man and keep us posted.

cheers
Nath

[YelloRolla]

Search - this topic has been covered.
You will definitely need more than 3k if you are not going to build a time bomb.
1 - Forged Pistons ( I like the Wiseco 87mm flat top items - but you really wouldn't use a std head gasket due to the diameter of the fire ring impinging into the bore area).
2 - Rods (if I was doing it again I would use aftermarket rods) by the time you prep a set for floating pins, re-size and install ARP rod bolts, there will be little difference from a set of eagles that are supplied with everything you need.
3 - Gaskets and Bearings of course.
4 - Injectors
5 - Bin the std turbo. A CT26 will get you there, I reckon a ceramic turbine could be made to live, but I wouldn't really want it - it just invites a point of failure. I recommend just going for a new roller item from Garrett. I recommend Garrett because they are local and all relevant technical data can be easily sourced. There are a couple of different turbos that will get you there. Garrett part number 705330-0001 looks like it will easily do the job.
6 - You can do it on std cams and T/B.

[TIMTAMS]

Search - this topic has been covered.
You will definitely need more than 3k if you are not going to build a time bomb.
1 - Forged Pistons ( I like the Wiseco 87mm flat top items - but you really wouldn't use a std head gasket due to the diameter of the fire ring impinging into the bore area).
2 - Rods (if I was doing it again I would use aftermarket rods) by the time you prep a set for floating pins, re-size and install ARP rod bolts, there will be little difference from a set of eagles that are supplied with everything you need.
3 - Gaskets and Bearings of course.
4 - Injectors
5 - Bin the std turbo. A CT26 will get you there, I reckon a ceramic turbine could be made to live, but I wouldn't really want it - it just invites a point of failure. I recommend just going for a new roller item from Garrett. I recommend Garrett because they are local and all relevant technical data can be easily sourced. There are a couple of different turbos that will get you there. Garrett part number 705330-0001 looks like it will easily do the job.
6 - You can do it on std cams and T/B.

Thanks heaps i will have to look at who is going to do this work and start getting parts together slowly but surely, looks like its closer to 4k for the long motor at the moment but hey its worth i think. Is swm the only guys in sydney that are good with these things or any contacts will help too.

Thanks again

[GasedT18]

....hey do you mind giving me some details on what u did in your engine build up u can pm if u want to keep it private. I dont have a prob with spending 4500 on the engine if thats what it needs but i have no idea on what they are worth or capable of.

There's more than a few threads on 3T-GTE re-builds. In the spirit of the Toymods the more that is posted openly and shared the more useful the forums are.

I for one would like to see at least some costed options and reasoning, I have 3T-GTE too but almost certainly have different requirements, budget, timeline and philosophy.

The initial budget $2-3k becomes $4.5k without much information. A stock, fresh engine makes 160 HP@ 6000 RPM with 7.3psi boost (HP at the wheels or flywheel I'm not sure) - you say want an extra 100 HP.

New forged pistons are a obvious starting point in a high boost application. The case being that the stock cast pistons are prone to heat degredation - the crowns soften and puncture, which to me is an indication that perhaps there was a tuning error or abuse, i.e., detonation/knock/ping - which in turn suggest things like, poor fuel choice, inadequate intercooling, ignition timing too advanced or that cast pistons just die with old age - though I think not.

In terms of pistons, some choose Arias, others Eagle and there's Wiseco and JP. I've yet to hear anyone on the forum complain about their forged pistons - regardless of brand. However, I spoke with one young man who put a hole in a forged piston and he said he couldn't jeust buy one replacement - they came in pairs. ACL make stock replacment pistons - so I've heard. ACL also supply forged pistons but they don't list the 3T-GTE - they do list 1UZFE, 3S-GTE, 4A-GE's, 4A-GZE - which means a saving on postage cost.

The usual course with getting forged pistons is to also rebore. I'm not sure why, apart from extra power that the whopping extra 200cc would bring. I wonder if you can't get 85mm (stock bore) forged pistons? If the bores are in good enough condition I would have thought a re-hone would be an option and a cheaper one than a rebore? A question I don't know the answer to is if oversized rings are used and available allowing just a re-hone and if there's a choice in ring material and possibly re-grooving for thicker stronger rings? With forged pistons I believe there's an exotic option and that's to get gapless rings fitted. Import forged pistons cost around the $1400 mark. I guess they come with rings and pins. Another thing I'm usure about is wrist pin fit and with new pins whether the small rod end needs attention. Myself I am probably going to stick with stock pistons and investigate having them ceramic coated and a re-hone. If my cylinders are out of shape a rebore will then be necessary.

On all accounts 3T-GTE rods are prettty strong - I don't recall anyone on the forums mentioning that they've bent or broken them and I expect that the stock bolts are strong enough. However, some forum members have had their rods stress relieved, shot peened and ARP bolts fitted.

Then there is the question of rod/piston balancing, crank journal hardening and redrinding/linishing and crank balancing - for new larger lighter pistons. For what I want I wouldn't be doing this as my pistons will weigh the same as the stock pistons. I'd measure up the journals and tolerences of the bearings - you can do this yourself. Micrometers, calipers, dial guages, a set of scales, bore guages and plastiguage are compartively cheap by comparison to the labour of a skilled tradesperson with workshop overheads and you have the tools for future use. The cost comes if what you've got is outside of tolerance. The chances are all I'd need is new bottom end bearings. Does anyone know if there's a choice in bearing material types for the 3T-GTE?

Now the existing state of your engine will have a potentially big impact on your budget. If your valve quides are worn and your valve seats not up to scratch and your springs are out of spec that will need to be measured up and attended to if necessary. So a head rebuild could be in order. You can check whether your head is warped with a straightedge and feeler guage. There's a problem with old alloy heads and that is over the years thay start to go soft - this makes re-torqueing them problematic because the head bolts start to deform the metal underneath them rather than delivering load eavenly. One way to find out is to get them hardness tested.

If your going to get a head rebuild there are options for valves, valve seat triple angle grinds and improved springs (I'm not sure if 3T-GTEs are double sprung or if they can be - some of the 2T-Gxx's heads I think were double sprung) all at extra cost of course. And then there are cams. I've heard little on this forum about 3T-GTE cams. In my application there is some reason to improve lift and a little extra duration on the inlet cam. There has been very little discussion and data about porting on the 3T-GTE. The belief is with a bigget turbo you can just cram more air in. However, bigger turbo's generally mean more inertia and slower spooling so finding some improved head flow and and efficient smaller turbo might mean a more responsive engine or to forking out for a ball bearing turbo.

I'm going to wind up here and we haven't addressed, fixing possibly worn out timing chain, cams, cam/crank sprokets, chain guides, efficient intercooling (very important), lightened billet flywheel, choice of improved clutch, ECUs (and especially the importance of a propely functioning knock sensor), injector sizing/improved fuel pumping etc and whether the driveline will cope.

Once the engine is stripped down and measured up you will be in a better position to know what fundamentals need to be fixed, if any, and how much budget will be left over for improvements.

A bit more information about your car would help.

Cheers

David

[TIMTAMS]

Well first of all a big thanks to david for his invaluble time,

Im actually looking for250+ hp atw so a fair bit more than 170hp is required from the stock unit, the motor has been pulled down from the previous owner so i can only hope its all there. It did fail from a bad tune/neglect from owner so i do have to put together a plan of attack hence this thread i will do some more searches and put together a detailed post of what and when and how much.

Thanks again for ur help

[GasedT18]

Cool TimTam, no worries, just have plenty of time on my hands at the moment.

It will be good to hear about the plan, watch the progress and see how the costs work out. Also interested in hearing about who you get to do the machining/re-building.

That turbo looks interesting - can anyone put a brand name and specs to it?

sillycar chick is doing a 3T-GTE build and bought an engine with a radical big bore out. She does her research and writes a good informative thread.

As for the rest of the interested people, some of who have got a lot of experience, there are plenty of unanswered questions in my post HINT HINT - of course I'm doing plenty of investigation - but one of the great things about the forum is learning from others.

One last thing, has anyone sourced aftermarket timing chains for these engines?

D

[broken22]

.

One last thing, has anyone sourced aftermarket timing chains for these engines?

D

I answered that one here

http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16820

they are the same as holden V8? ones

Not sure what brand

my mechanic used a

3DR60 bottom (listed for local 3TC)
3DR98 top (listed for local 2TC)

http://www.partswarehouse.com.au/par...Timing%20Chain

Thats assuming that he wrote the right numbers down.

SW motorsport sells them as well.

I am hoping to get similar power from my 3TG eventually.
The internals mods to my engine consist of:

Ross forged pistons (1mm os)
ACL 3SGTE rings
standard 3TG rods with ARP rod bolts
fully dynamic engine balancing
HKS bead type MLS headgasket
ported and port matched head
There are also some camtech cams in there for a 2TG, they are a bit of an unknown quantity at this stage. I can't comment on there suitability until I get it running, they are meant to be a rally grind.