Building a 3TGTE turbo motor

[TIMTAMS]

does that come with a tensioner? the chain kit do u know

[broken22]

no its just the chain, tensioners are sold seperately and depending which ones you want are not cheap.

[YelloRolla]

Camtech offer three grinds of cam that I know of. Best to remain conservative I think.
I use stock 3T GTE cams and a 2TG head - best power to date from my engine is 280+hp at the wheels (over 100,000km since last freshen up - which was a hone, rings and bearings).
I use 1mm overbore and the pistons are SPS which accept VL commodore turbo rings (chrome top ring).
I also use a stock head gasket (using 86mm pistons allows this). I have O ringed the head to help the gasket live (fuel quality can change daily) and pinging is guaranteed at some point when leaning on it. ~$1200 odd, locally made.
I buy the chain 25ft at a time (by the roll). AFAIK the 253-308 Holden Chain suits the bottom of the 18R. I have never checked it against the 2T - 3T.
KP gasket sets available from Stewart Wilkins Rally (these are OEM quality gasket sets).
Valve springs will be absolutely required. Performance Springs Part # RR4. These offer 90lbs on the seat.
Custom exhaust manifold will be required if going for any aftermarket turbo.
Custom intake manifold if you want to get a more direct intercooler to T/B path.
Pipe layout and good design will help with achieving the numbers.
The factory rebuild book is about all that is required for rebuilding the engine. EXCEPT for clearances - Piston to bore clearance will be recommended by the piston manufacturer and will be set by the engine machinist.
Ring end gap will want to be higher up the scale than the factory minimum. I would go .018" on the top and .016" on the second (some say the second should have more to help prevent ring flutter) do the reading and make up your own mind. I use a diamond file to set ring end gap. Some have really cool ring grinding machines.
For all intents and purposes, there is a lot to engine assembly. I will not go into what has been written in a thousand text books as it will only serve to magnify my limited handle on my english/grammar.

[GasedT18]

Thanks YelloRolla,

Some good sensible reasoning and cost saving info there +rep!

I've wondered if the chains could be broken/remade with a chain breaker, now I have an answer. How much for a roll, what brand, - who sells it?

SPS that's Special Piston Services in Dandenong Vic - they don't appear to have a web site.

The Commodore rings sound like they could be a cost saver too.

Custom exhaust manifold will be required if going for any aftermarket turbo.

Any aftermarket turbo? Is that because it is too restrictive. Are adaptor plates not an option provided the turbine entry size wise is about the same? Or is it the thermodynamic properties of the cast manifold?

Sure they look hot, er, pardon the pun - more to the point they look too cool.

How much are we looking at for a custom manifold (like below) and ceramic coating?

The factory rebuild book

Do you mean the Jap Toyota 3T-GTE Workshop Manual?

I will not go into what has been written in a thousand text books as it will only serve to magnify my limited handle on my english/grammar.

Ha! Ha! The construction of the very sentence belies you! At least you've got the hang of capitalising the first word in a sentence and putting a full stop at the end. Don't be shy I won't -rep you for poor English but I really feel like it with some posts on this Forum. Having to read a long paragraph without a comma or full stop is draining.

In terms of books I've heard 21st Century Performance is quite good. It was a bit pricey the last time I looked. Don't know how much it goes into engine re-building though, I must check.

D

[YelloRolla]

That is a manifold that I made for the Toyman_75. Approx $800+.

I use the 2T, 2T-G and 3TC book. The torque and clearance values are all the same as the Jap 3T GTE book (at least the ones that I cross referenced).

I like to make the pipework (all pipe work) to suit the car. It is the best way to minimize losses. The factory cast exhaust manifold can be adapted quite well (it is well designed). I originally made myself a new one as the factory one cracked (as they tend to do so). The car went quicker. I have tried various turbos and manifolds since then and I feel that there is a bit in it. I make them with smaller primaries than the one pictured in an effort to create higher exhaust velocity - it seems to work.

[broken22]

aftermarket turbo? Is that because it is too restrictive. Are adaptor plates not an option provided the turbine entry size wise is about the same? Or is it the thermodynamic properties of the cast manifold?

D

Adapter plates can be used with the stock manifold, if you are after the best from your turbo its best to get a custom manifold made to suit. Cast iron manifolds normally outlast fabricated ones which is why they are used OEM. The stock 3TGTE manifold can be restrictive if used with other turbos, it is however a very thick item. My manifold has been ported quite a lot to use a T3 turbocharger, up to 12mm has been removed in some spots and it should still be easily strong enough. Also remember a restricive turbo manifold = more heat = more prone to cracking.

My manifold is off the car right now if you want some pic.

I do plan to eventually use a custom manifold and GT25 turbo.

[TheToyman75]

Gassed,

Looks like you have been busy in the 5 months you have been onthe forums, certainly picking up on the info as it come to hand.

The biggest problem with any forum environment is deciphering the good information from the bad. Picking the guys(or girls) who have actually done the job apart from those that have read about it, watched it be done, paid someone to do it or Mates said is the hardest part. The input form the later four should always be taken pretty lightly.

TimTams,

If you look at the figures from the 3T-GTE's that are all across this forum and the mods people do you will realise a couple of key points about 3T-GTE's.

# They don't forgive fuck ups - These engines are a full interference motor, you get the assembly wrong valves and pistons argue for space. They are not forgiving of poor tunes or poor workmanship. Cast pistons break, incorrect bearing fitments are common, cheap oil filters wil split and the list goes on. Allot of these "tricks of the trade" need to be learnt the hard way.

# They regulary provide dispointing figures after backyard rebuilds/upgrades.Just because they are a cheap engine to buy doesn;t mean you should only do "cheap" modifications. - All engines need to be built right to make good power. The 3T-GTE has a habit of highlighting this. In short, you CAN cut allot of corners building one BUT you will get the result that equals your efforts

# The 3T-GTE is a generally underrated and overshadowed engine. It CAN make good power for reasonable effort if you do it right. Just looking over the signatures in this thread should make that clear.

[GasedT18]

Looks like you have been busy in the 5 months you have been on the forums, certainly picking up on the info as it comes to hand.

Ha, last 5 months! As you may well know I've been lurking since the old old forums . Admittedly, life, or lack of it, depending on your viewpoint, got in the way for a while and certainly lack of finances for an expensive hobby.

Yes picking up info and sometimes recycling it in intelligible form. Trying to find everything ever written or mentioned about the engine on this and the old forum and as you say sifting the applied information from the secondhand. Gingering up the silent doers, the quiet achievers to communicate, as best they can so we don't have to all learn the "tricks of the trade" the hard way. Probing for justification and reason.

This isn't F1 'secret' territory - more about maintaining and extending the database of an almost antique engine and I beg to differ they're not a cheap starting point for their age and have a moderately light performance potential per dollar spent ratio. The 3S-xxx being possibly a better base that has higher potential and longer upgrade path - but I'm not going to venture into unfamiliar territory. The thread should stick it's course. Keeping the $$$$'s in check without cutting corners is good for every enthusiast and pinning down $/HP and what's to be expected from a humble mod to the more exotic means driving the motoring enthusiasts doller further

The 3T-GTE is a generally underrated and overshadowed engine. It CAN make good power for reasonable effort if you do it right. Just looking over the signatures in this thread should make that clear.

I agree, it's getting the 'do it right' bit authoritatively quantified and coherently documented, that's the hard part. Impressive times at the drags show the engines potential and the knowledge of the builders.

A bit of a general ramble, but then I don't know much

Cheers

D

[TIMTAMS]

wow... give me a day to go through this, as u can see it is late and there are so many good things here i want to spend the time going through it. all i can say is thanku very much thus far, all of you. i appreciate itt alot i will venture back tommorow, refreshed.

[TIMTAMS]

HA HA a year later and here i am with a engine that yellow rolla built and man does it hall ass or what!!! and i havent started even playing with it yet!!!!

[Jackel]

you sell i buy cheap cheap yesh?

[TIMTAMS]

hows $8500 sound for the whole car?

[TheToyman75]

Dude,

How about an Update ?

[Cuzzo]

LOL hes got a good one.. Just waiting to get the car back from the shop

[TIMTAMS]

Ok i went out for a run a couple of weeks ago to eastern creek and screwed the boost to abbout 18psi to set a base on what the car runs and a starting point to move forward from.


I never for a second thought it would run a 12.5 first pass (i even missed second gear cause i shit my self when it hooked up so well )

We then proceeded to the pits with the obvious thought of "let screw some freaking boost into this thing!!!!!" 24psi later i lined up, did a burnout and fried the...Spark plugs

So with a little dismay i packed up still happy with a mid 12 set off to get a good tune in this car ( i never had it tuned as i plugged it in and just drove it)

I sent the car off to Paul @ PULSE racing who dynoed my current setup at a healthy 254hp atw and suggested we use a "decent" fuel and put some timing into it, i left it in his good hands.

ANZAC day i got the call your car is ready!!! WWOOOOOTTTTTT, well how did it go i said? 315HP atw !!!! on 104 octane fuel and 22psi im freakin stoked and just want to go pick it up!!!!

I will do my very best to be at the creek on wed night to break down that 11sec wall!!!!!

Video of my 12 sec pass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMEfkgJyI2Q