3T-GTE Random Part. WHAT IS THIS PART?!?

[setsuna]

oh yes. those three little metal things were for the oil return, and the bearings were placed in backwards.
thanks for the replys regarding that

-DAvid

[o_man_ra23]

David,
Are you sending the engine back to the builders?? If they dont know how to build a particular engine, they should not take the job on... so it is their negligence that you now have an engine which needs the head taken back off.

Cheers, Owen

[GasedT18]

David,

did you say to the engine re-builders that you didn't need the dizzy shaft installed because you had a CAS to go in - "but I had made up a CAS to go there in its place" (and that this to their mind presumably could be fitted after the head was installed - i.e., on the crank pulley)? Did you show it to them? I just can't imagine a re-builder handing back an engine with a component uninstalled like that unless they had some idea you didn't need it installed? Sounds like some mis-communication to me?

I was on the phone last night to a guy who said he had an engine rebuild but that they didn't replace the welsh plugs. The old ones rotted through (not too long after the re-build of course) and he melted an imported forged piston. He can only get them in pairs $500 and months of waiting.

Guys, in general, do engine re-builders provide a report of before and after measurements of all of the components they will be dealing with the machining and work they do? I wouldn't accept less. I would also provide the tolerence requirements/engine specs to the machinist and not assume they know how to look it up or have enough experience 'just to know' or I would want an explanation why they would want to use a different tolerance. What are your thoughts?

I think removing parts - oh you don't need it because if you rotate x,y,z it does the job is poor workmanship and should require prior approval. Should another re-builder overlook a removed part it could be disastrous.

My 2c

David

P.S. do I spy a server on the rack in the background?

[o_man_ra23]

GassedT18, you have many valid points. Unfortunatley a lot of people who are getting rebuilds done dont know what tolerances and specs they should have, and engine builders know this. Also they can get away with poor tolerances usually by blaming premature engine failure on poor run in or poor driving... which is dodgy but its how things are.

Cheers, Owen

[YelloRolla]

David,

did you say to the engine re-builders that you didn't need the dizzy shaft installed because you had a CAS to go in - "but I had made up a CAS to go there in its place" (and that this to their mind presumably could be fitted after the head was installed - i.e., on the crank pulley)?

Except it NOT a dizzy shaft, it is an oil pump drive (admittedly something that the distributor originally did when it was a SOHC) - this is something that the engine builder definitely should know (albeit that he may have seen it too late). Apart from that, you make good sense and valid points.

Oman - I don't think that this is the place for free general consumer advice That would be in the "general consumer advice" part of the forums.

[o_man_ra23]

Oman - I don't think that this is the place for free law advice That would be in the "law opinions wanted" part of the forums.

WTF??

I would hardly call what I said free law advice... general consumer advice maybe. Small claims tribunal or Australian Consumer Commision is where you would get law advice from... or a solicitor (hardly worth it in this case).

Cheers, Owen

[poida]

Guys, great thread. This the the exact kind of things novices like myself may overlook when excitably rushing into an engine rebuild by ourselves or via a workshop.

I had a 2tg rebuild that was done incorrectly a few years ago, nothing more frustrating when it all goes to shit!

[sillycar chick]

....hence why Im the only one who rebuilds my engines. At least when it turns to shit, you're the only one who can get the blame for fking it up... which youre less likely to do because you take more pride in your work cos its yours, and are more likely to ask questions (like on toymods) when youre not sure!

[YelloRolla]

WTF??

I would hardly call what I said free law advice... general consumer advice maybe. Small claims tribunal or Australian Consumer Commision is where you would get law advice from... or a solicitor (hardly worth it in this case).

Cheers, Owen

Yeah you're right. I apologise and I've fixed it.

[setsuna]

yes and yes. that reminds me I need to get the clearance sheets I gave them for the pistons back. they had a 'worksheet' to write stuff on.. I wonder if they have thrown it out already. oh well. I just like collecting random stuff

yeah, they have picked the engine up and are looking at it. last word is that they think the shaft can be dis-assembled enough to put it in with the head on. I hope so!!

then we won't have to remove the head.. which I worry about the life of the MLS gasket if this is done! (they say it should be okay - who knows)

lil server and UPS system in rack there. happens to be where you're downloading those lovely pictures from
reasonably stable. router has been up 260days so far with the help of the UPS. *proud moment*
pity im moving house next month.. will loose 'all that hard work'. think moving an assembled rack, and running equipment will be a bit much of an ask PPPP

but back on topic, we will see what happens with my engine! I will call them tomorrow, and see if there has been any progress!

-DAvid

[GasedT18]

YelloRolla:

"Except it NOT a dizzy shaft, it is an oil pump drive"

Faaaarque. Yikes!!!

In that case they're culpable and are clearly obliged to fix it.

David:

"last word is that they think the shaft can be dis-assembled enough to put it in with the head on. I hope so!!"

"then we won't have to remove the head.. which I worry about the life of the MLS gasket if this is done! (they say it should be okay - who knows)"

If they think the shaft can be dismantled I'd be asking how they propose to do it? Ask them if it was put together as a cryogenic fit? Find out more information - you don't want it to fail. Can anyone help out here - I'm not familiar with the part?

I think they should offer to pull the head, clean up the surface and put a NEW gasket in (after putting the untampered-with shaft back in of course ) at no additional cost and with a degree of humility if not an apology. As far as I'm concerned a 're-used' - re-squished high performance head gasket is a sus head gasket. They're coated in special 'stuff', some of it's going to come off - it's rooted! The labour cost, the potential future cost to you and their reputation outweigh any f#%king around.

I'd be diplomatic but FIRM and I'd want the 'old' gasket. It's not 'we' won't have to remove the head it's THEM - they are contracted to you and you are paying for it - and yes get your documentation back.

sillycar chick:
....hence why I'm the only one who rebuilds my engines. At least when it turns to shit, you're the only one who can get the blame for fking it up... which you're less likely to do because you take more pride in your work 'cos its yours, and are more likely to ask questions (like on toymods) when you're not sure!

Yep. I've read a few of your posts and you are spot on in your initiative. As I mentioned I'd take care about 're-using' head gaskets (maybe some latitude in the older graphite matrix type if they hadn't been 'driven') and I'd wouldn't be taking a Stanley knife to an alloy head to cut off head gaskets that are stuck on! A cut thumb will heal, a gouge on a allloy head won't Use solvents - give them time to work and a hard plastic scraper and in the extreme a dull wide metal scraper. I've come across a few highly expert machinists who take pride in all of their work and they are inspirational. I used to work at a uni as a techie and had my own small workshop but my jaw dropped when I first walked into the engineering workshop. What they couldn't do couldn't be done.

Lastly, David, I would ask the company what torque they used on your head bolts, what tensioning sequence they used and what type of head bolts they used. If they're not the torque to yield type I would go out and buy/borrow a good deflecting beam torque wrench (e.g, Warren and Brown) and check the torque on the head bolts yourself. Do some research. You only need to back the bolt off as little as 1/5 a turn - don't unscrew it! Retension to the specified level. Also note there is a sequence (bolt x followed by y....) for your engine (they may not have used the factory sequence). I'm not savvy with the MLS Viton fluoroelastomeric gaskets, they look good on paper, but I suspect they relax. Then do it again after a week of daily driving. This might seem old school but you will KNOW where you stand.

You do appreciate the value of an un-interruptable power supply eh ???

I hope all of this doesn't come across as too sagely or that you feel slapped around the ears a bit but I hate seeing people get stung. I'm also a bit mad because I'm in the process of fixing up the mistakes of a mechanic that charged my poor old mum a lot of money to replace a head gasket about two years ago - it's a saga that may appear in a post soon.

P.S Have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

[o_man_ra23]

Very good advice Gassed T18... hope ya mum's car comes together well.

Sillius Chickus... I agree, and I too do *most* of my own engine building... I may take my 3SGTE to a bloke that I know personally... but thats a whole different kettle of fish... mind you, I may just get him to do the machine work.

Yello Rolla... smartass

David... I would too have reservations about disassembling the oil pump drive... if it doesnt just pull apart by hand, I wouldnt let them force it (only one of my 18RG drives fell apart by hand, and I was suspect of it)

Cheers, Owen

[TheToyman75]

I didn't even think of it.. ive never had that shaft out before on my last rebuild.
so had no clue to give engine guy some tips.. next time maybe

-DAvid

Any engine builder who takes pride in there work will trial assemble an engine before final assembly. Its why good engine builders take longer and charge more. A little more time and money on the rebuild often equals allot less time, headache and money and disasters later on. I hope they sort it out for you

[sillycar chick]

Sillius Chickus... I agree, and I too do *most* of my own engine building... I may take my 3SGTE to a bloke that I know personally... but thats a whole different kettle of fish... mind you, I may just get him to do the machine work.

Yeah Owen, I will agree with you on that one. I do admit I send heads away for reco's and valve relapping, but that's cos my dad's known the guy for over 20 years, and he is a very good head reconditioner. Victor Bray has been sending his heads to the same guy for many many years also.

And admittedly I cant do any machine work myself, but I like to assemble engines myself anyway, much more fun, you learn heaps and have enormous satisfaction from it once you have the engine up and running

[TheToyman75]

Guys, in general, do engine re-builders provide a report of before and after measurements of all of the components they will be dealing with the machining and work they do? I wouldn't accept less. I would also provide the tolerence requirements/engine specs to the machinist and not assume they know how to look it up or have enough experience 'just to know' or I would want an explanation why they would want to use a different tolerance. What are your thoughts?

My 2c

David

David,

There is a balance between taking an active and informed interest in your engine build and insulting the people you are dealing with. Before you buy a rump steak you don't stick your head up the cows arse and look any more than you ask your butcher what knife he used, how old the cow was and could you see its family tree.

I encourage people to talk to their mechanics/engine builders, its often a comment made in passing that makes all the difference and to be honest 90% of vehicle owners have no idea what the actually want. They will give a list of things they think they want, but then if you actually ask they will describe a completely different end result - Ie I want a 355 stroker with 240 @ 50 high lift cams on 113 lobe seperation and oversize valves...... only to find they want a tough street motor with good mid range that wil run on pump gas and their wife can stil pick up the kids from school in. Which is two totally different things.

The more you know about your car the better off you are and the more you know about what you want before you start the closer it will be to what you desired. You should be able to ask your engine builder things like what comp ratio it is, combustion chamber size, what ring gap they left and the like but ask with an interest not as if your questioning their ability. I sure as fuck wouldn't ask if they know how to do up head bolts or you may end up with a torque wrench hanging out your ass and a bill to replace it

If you need to ask as basic a question as that you are not comportable with your engine builder and should find a new one before you start. Performance engines need performace mechanics and yes they are hard to find.