4AGE 100kw smallport turbo rebuild

[4agte]

Maybe you're getting your wires crossed here as well...as was stated previously the GZE pistons ARE forged and ceramic coated. It's just a matter of how much power they can take versus the aftermarket Arias pistons and the like.

yup i agree but it seems that people that have been pushing over 200kw atw have changed to aftermarket forged pistons i know they are forged and ceramic coated

i know that fatmr2 said that his ball bearing t28 from an s15 silvia ran out of puff at 177kw atw so you may need something bigger like a gt2535 or gt2530 to acheive 200kw atw.

[BoostBoy]

i know that fatmr2 said that his ball bearing t28 from an s15 silvia ran out of puff at 177kw atw so you may need something bigger like a gt2535 or gt2530 to acheive 200kw atw.

Yeah but I'm thinking an aftermarket t28 like a Garrett...these ones will be suitable to handle over 200kw at the wheels:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_707160_5.htm

Actually, that turbo is probably pushing it as well.

Do s15 turbos have a steel turbine wheel or ceramic...if it's ceramic he wouldn't be able to boost it much past 15psi before it breaks.

[4agte]

fats one was steel wheeld as i think he was pushing 18 or 20 psi through it b4 he "high flowed" and i think he was pushing 22psi
looks the goods that turbo should be quite nice on a 4a

might need something bigger for over 200 atw maybee something like a gt28rs

i think racespec has a deal on them atm

http://www.racespec.com.au/shop_detail.php?detail_id=53

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=967

[BoostBoy]

Yep, I think I might need the gt28rs just to be in the right power range and also so the turbo isn't at it's limits.

I just got some measurements for an off-the-shelf intercooler I'm thinking of buying...but I'm afraid it won't fit. Here's the measurements:

Depth: 3"
Width: 600mm (850mm from each end tank)
Height: 300mm

Does anyone know if this will fit behind a standard corolla front bar if I move the oil cooler and remove the AC fan? I don't mind cutting into the standard plastic as long as I don't have to cut a huge chunk out that can then be seen from the outside.

[BoostBoy]

I went to a popular Melbourne workshop today (will remain nameless), and spoke to the boss there.

I told him about my predicament with the gze versus the ge rebuild. He seems to think that the gze is still the best way to go for a few reasons. His main points were that the gze has a webbed block and the head flows better because it has bigger exhaust ports. He also said the cost of buying the half-cut with all the accessories is still far cheaper than rebuilding the ge and with the change left-over I could make the gze even better.

Does what he's saying about the gze make sense? Or is he full of it? Where can I get the detailed specs on both these engines so I can put this to rest once and for all?

[NVD05X]

he is full of it dude.

its been said a million times that the ONLY difference between the 100kw 4age and the map sensored GZE is the pistons and cams...

the block, crank, rods, head and valves and therefore ports are all the same...

you should ask him where he gets his " information" from...

[4agte]

what nvdo5x said basicially just different pistons take your money and your car elsewhere

[The Witzl]

cams are the same AFAIK between smallport 4age and smallport 4agze.

if you are going for turbo - then you will be going aftermarket ecu... this means no need for all the "extra stuff in the front cut" - which you will get next to nothing for selling second hand.

A gze f/cut costs around $3000 these days.
a 100kw engine costs MAX $600

for the $2400 difference, you can do a lot of things to that smallport - including buying a Microtech....

[NVD05X]

cams are the same AFAIK between smallport 4age and smallport 4agze..

my bad... dunno what I was jibbering

[BoostBoy]

cams are the same AFAIK between smallport 4age and smallport 4agze.

if you are going for turbo - then you will be going aftermarket ecu... this means no need for all the "extra stuff in the front cut" - which you will get next to nothing for selling second hand.

A gze f/cut costs around $3000 these days.
a 100kw engine costs MAX $600

for the $2400 difference, you can do a lot of things to that smallport - including buying a Microtech....

Yep, I hear you mate. I found the specs comparing both the engines and it is proven on paper...so I'm gonna print it out and show him...but he'll probably make up some crap that he knew or something

[DeftAnesthetik]

he is full of it dude.

its been said a million times that the ONLY difference between the 100kw 4age and the map sensored GZE is the pistons and cams...

the block, crank, rods, head and valves and therefore ports are all the same...

you should ask him where he gets his " information" from...

1st gen small port blocks are NOT the same as any of the GZE blocks, they are weaker. not to say that the block would not hold its own but if you are serious about building forced induction with the ability to take some abuse (especially running 15psi boost) I would reccomend going with 3rd or 4th gen block as it DEFINATELY be able to take it, also you gain the advantage of oil cooled pistons if you get a 4th gen engine, also 1st/2nd gen engines were smaller gudgeon and conrod (18mm gudgeon 40mm conrod) where as the following versions were 20mm gudgen and 42mm conrod.

if these are things you already knew then ignore this post, otherwise take it into consideration as it will affect the process of your upgrade.

[BoostBoy]

1st gen small port blocks are NOT the same as any of the GZE blocks, they are weaker. not to say that the block would not hold its own but if you are serious about building forced induction with the ability to take some abuse (especially running 15psi boost) I would reccomend going with 3rd or 4th gen block as it DEFINATELY be able to take it, also you gain the advantage of oil cooled pistons if you get a 4th gen engine, also 1st/2nd gen engines were smaller gudgeon and conrod (18mm gudgeon 40mm conrod) where as the following versions were 20mm gudgen and 42mm conrod.

if these are things you already knew then ignore this post, otherwise take it into consideration as it will affect the process of your upgrade.

Hi. In my first post I stated I had the 3rd gen smallport motor, so I do have the stronger block. And also I believe the 3rd gen has the oil cooled pistons as well. The webbing the mechanic was talking about...is the ribs in the block the same thing? What is this referring to exactly in the block?

[Big T]

Look at the intake side of the engine and there will be a set of ribs. The early 4age (bigport TVIS) will have 3 ribs. Yours should have 7 like this motor...



Eddie.

[DeftAnesthetik]

Hi. In my first post I stated I had the 3rd gen smallport motor, so I do have the stronger block. And also I believe the 3rd gen has the oil cooled pistons as well. The webbing the mechanic was talking about...is the ribs in the block the same thing? What is this referring to exactly in the block?

My mistake, somehow my mind translated that it was 1st gen block. if you have the small port then you have the IDENTICAL block as 3rd gen GZE, should take all kinds of abuse. and i am pretty sure the webbing he is talking about refers to the number of ribs on the block. You do have oil cooled pistons as well. The other thing that makes this block stand out is that it has the external oil drain at the rear of the block (exhaust side). Depending on how far you want to go, I will advise this... your current pistons are 10.3:1 compression.. the gze standard is 8.9:1 so you will have to change the current ones out to do forced induction, 2ndly the GZE has a steel forged crank, the small port sometimes does and sometimes doesn't. (usually not) so that may need to be replaced as well.

FWIW the smallport is a good engine as is, with a few mods can become an NA monster, if your intent is to turbo/supercharge (and your not going to sway) you would be better off getting a complete GZE and selling off your smallport to compensate for the cost.

just my two cents. hope that answers your questions

[4agte]

just slap some gze pistons wind up the boost to 30 psi and tell us how it goes