Too Many Rules?

[RONA]

if you get neg repped for posting crap.. thats the point. people should not be neg repping for disagreeing with an opinion... but as previously mentioned, in Tech, it is more black and white.. fact or fiction (to a point). i personally think rep should be restricted to tech and general, and have all non-car positive reps removed.

Yes and no they'e is also some valuable tips given in general car talk (ie supplying part no.s in dedicated thread etc), members rides thread can also be valuable for information and in some cases the feedback section if someone answers a question thats been plaguing people well in some circumstances it does deserve rep because they are helping the forums for the greater good.

[jonra23]

i personally think rep should be restricted to tech and general, and have all non-car positive reps removed.

I agree getting rep for some random stuff does 2 things

1. Encorages people who want rep for whatever reason to start some random thread in an attempt to score some rep.

2. Mis-represents someones tech contribution if rep is gained from random threads, ( I guess rep was original meant to give an indication to tech contribution as well as to stop it become a trading post forum)

regards
jon

[benjamin]

the off topic section was set up due to the fact that someone will ALWAYS post some crap, so its better in there than in the tech section

If this is the only reason that we have an off topic section, then get rid of it!

With the amount of moderation that occurs in the off topic section, I am sure it will be easier to clean up the crap threads than having a whole other section to monitor.

Most things in it can be split into general car talk and total shit.

The rest is semi decent stuff about computer programs and hardware so maybe the off topic could be replaced with computer technnology type stuff (I don't really know just a suggestion- I wouldn't use it, only because I know Jack Schitt about computers)

[deviant]

toymods is a CLUB, the forum is the TOYMODS CLUB technical resource.

But would the club be where it is now without the forums? At the moment there is a network of good friends and resources across the whole of Australia..without the forums the club would only be represented in the home town of the board members and would probably have very few members. I am aware that the club is not here for profit or to be a business venture but surely the founding members and the board want to see the club continue to grow and have 'chapters' in all states.

If the whole point of the web part of toymods is for a technical resource then why not just pull it down and close it completely and in its place just have tech articles and links to other websites?

[oldcorollas]

I am aware that the club is not here for profit or to be a business venture but surely the founding members and the board want to see the club continue to grow and have 'chapters' in all states.

If the whole point of the web part of toymods is for a technical resource then why not just pull it down and close it completely and in its place just have tech articles and links to other websites?

are you sure that is the goal? running the club takes a lot of time and energy away from busy people. big is not always better.

tech articles and links to other websites does not constitute a technical resource. then it is just another page on the net.
technical resource is more allowing a place for technical discussion and advancement of all things technical toyota. the forum works for that. the mailing list worked before that. the worlwide toyotamods mailing list worked before that...

the variety of technical things achieved by people on toymods is truly outstanding.
the variety of non-car and crap posted is just a filtering of crap from teh intahweb that already exists.

[XR Pilot]

toymods is not a secret society, but as of recently, unlesss you log in, you can only see the tech section. there is a reason for that

yes, mostly chatty.. and it is good for the forum as it keep the crap out of other sections... but does the club want to have a whole bunch for 5000post threads full of crap?
what noob would want to read thru 5000 posts of dribble to find something out?

i fail to see your relation between good members and noobs. everyone can read the tech section and learn. anyone on teh intahweb. anyone who joins up can read most sections. reading is learning.
posting crap is not. this is not a forum for average noobs. that is the whooooole point. this is not a noob forum, like.. hot4's or boostloosin or whatever... there is a reason for that.

as for your next call.. the forum is not here to attract members. this is not a profit making exercise. the forums are a technical resource, they are not club advertising.
the CLUB offers a social side.
toymods is a CLUB, the forum is the TOYMODS CLUB technical resource.
i think once you grasp that, you will understand why there is such an issue with all the crap.

as for people worried about using forum cos they might get neg repped...
if you feel you have been wrognly neg repped, you email the moderator of the forum and have it revoked.
if you get neg repped for posting crap.. thats the point. people should not be neg repping for disagreeing with an opinion... but as previously mentioned, in Tech, it is more black and white.. fact or fiction (to a point). i personally think rep should be restricted to tech and general, and have all non-car positive reps removed.

i think your suggestion for discussion rules are good, however, people will complain abotu more rules
i think the board would value your input, and i understand where you are coming from with the nop budget thing

Hmm sorry to keep reqouting this for everyone else, would be alot of reading I think this discussion is worthwhile though. Not trying to win an agruement here oldcorollas, but I think this discussion has given some good answers about the rules.

I wasn't really meaning secret society with reference to the new setup with the forums private

Agreed that there is some crap in the dedicated threads, and would seem like it is nothing butl crap if you didn't follow that thread, but if you follow a thread like that (as I do with the ST162 thread) I find that it is actually a very good resource. Eg questions pop up like what should my oil pressure be like when its cold etc, not really worth while as a seperate thread, but usually in a dedicated thread you can get your answers fairly quickly and straight to the point, as your only addressing a small (and specific) audience.

My relation between good members and noobs, is that some "noobs" may actually really be "switched-on" and only considered a noob because their post count is 3 or whatever, and they are still unsure of using a forum. In my opinion these sort of members are valuable to the club for contributions they may possibly make, but if the "atmosphere" does not seem welcoming to newer members, it would be a shame to potentially loose people like this because of this reason.

I understand completely with what your saying about this being technical resource. I don't think you got my point though I do not mean attracting members from a revenue perspective. What I meant was by attracting more members to the forum, their is more potential for Toymods to become a greater technical and information resource if there is a larger knowledge base to draw from, as people have different opinions, advice etc to give, and 2 people may approach a problem differently, yet both approaches may provide valuable information.

Good point on the rep system being restricted to the tech and general, can't see any problem with this

RE more rules: I guess it is a loose-loose situation either way This would be one of the hardest sections of the forum to define, as a one size fits all approach wouldn't suite everyone, so I guess in this kind of situation perhaps it is best just to tend to the majority, and for those who do not conform PM advice from mods would be the order of the day, perhaps? More work for the moderators though is a downside I can see, but I guess this is how it would work at the moment

I would be happy to give a bit of advice, but I also wouldn't like to be seen as knowing it all, if you get what I mean I think discussions like this are the best ways to approach these sorts of things. The no-budget thing is frustrating at times, but I'm happy with what I have achieved with the ST162 project.

[WDE_BDY]

as for your next call.. the forum is not here to attract members. this is not a profit making exercise. the forums are a technical resource, they are not club advertising.
the CLUB offers a social side.
toymods is a CLUB, the forum is the TOYMODS CLUB technical resource.
i think once you grasp that, you will understand why there is such an issue with all the crap.

There is one area I think a lot of the financial club members overlook.

The FORUM is far more than a technical resource for financial members, while there is a physical membership base over the years Toymods has grown into a very large virtual club as well. Personally I don't think the club can afford to understimate the value of its virtual members, many of whom also expect a social aspect to their Toymods experience but are not in NSW or other Toymods member rich areas.

The dedicated threads for example form a very large part of the social aspect, sharing what you have done on your car, what you plan to do, what others have done etc. Maybe some of the stuff in non car discussions is a bit out of hand and I have no problem with locking and deleting offending posts along with a dose of neg rep. However a bit of banter needs to be part of the Toymods forum or you remove any social aspect for the virtual members, no social sort of outlet will kill the input from a lot of virtual members.

Setting the forum as only a technical resource is self destructive to the club. A bit like a kid stomping around in a big sandpit, if you don't want to share and aren't nice to others you may well find yourself sitting there with no one left to play with.

Callum

[XR Pilot]

Sorry to double post in a row, but oldcorollas in your last post I think you have hit the nail on the head.

the variety of technical things achieved by people on toymods is truly outstanding.
the variety of non-car and crap posted is just a filtering of crap from teh intahweb that already exists.

100% agree with this. Would you agree that it seems like the perfect solution would be if we could abolish the unnecessary crap, yet still keep the forum a place that seems welcoming to new members? Seems like this would be the way to go, just be hard to workout how to achieve this

The FORUM is far more than a technical resource for financial members, while there is a physical membership base over the years Toymods has grown into a very large virtual club as well. Personally I don't think the club can afford to understimate the value of its virtual members, many of whom also expect a social aspect to their Toymods experience but are not in NSW or other Toymods member rich areas.

Callum

I agree with this, the social aspect of the virtual club is good for me, as I would have to drive 5+ hours in any direction to be near any sort of car club, be it Toymods or otherwise.

[oldcorollas]

but as Callum points out above, there IS a social aspect....

but that doesn't mean there needs to be a crap aspect too

now, crap threads are deleted or locked as seen fit by moderators after the thread has been reported. not all threads are locked/deleted
how far we want to define what is and isn't acceptable is an issue, and i am happy to leave that up to the board/moderators of the time.

[WDE_BDY]

Yes Stu there is a social aspect at the moment, however there seems to be more and more moves to kill off a lot of the social aspect.

Callum

[XR Pilot]

Yeah, as has been stated more than once (evidenced after re-reading the first few pages of this thread) that this forum is ONLY about tech, seems to reinforce Callums point

[bathurst-91]

YES IT IS

god...

that is what this forum is - stop whining because you want it to be something else. want a different style of forum, then join one!

again this is where i disagree.. its only my opinion.

but its like going to a car meet in real life and having some dood stand around everyone with a cow prod saying YOU CAN ONLY TALK TECH ABOUT CARS.... car meets are about making friends aswell.. and a group of friends with the same interests becomes a community.. friends in a community should be able to talk about whatever the hell they want! you cant prod someone with said cowprod because theyve told another member about this funny video they found on the net

[Joshstix]

I just want to address a few of the arguments in this thread.

Yes there are a lot of old members who no longer use the forums, however there are also a lot of old members who we got back by starting the new forums. These are the ones who got fed up by the retards who just came here to post rubbish in the outhouse of the old forum, who were a big reason for there being so many rules.

What is the aim of the forum?

1. Be a quality technical resource for Toyota enthusiasts the world over
2. Allow the members of the club to communicate and organise things outside of the time that they are at club events
3. Publicise the club
4. Promote a community of Toyota enthusiasts

Two of those things are very much about socialising and this is the SOLE purpose of the non car discussion section of the forum. The board is of the opinion as I assume everyone is that there should be a place for mature discussion of topics not specifically car related as we all have interests other than only Toyota's. The key point is mature discussion not just posting random rubbish.

There is the argument that we are restricting the number of people who join the forums by restricting the amount of crap being posted. My opinion is if having rubbish threads removed is a reason not to join then please save me the time of approving your sign-up. We have 4100+ members from all over the world, makes you wonder about the claim that the rules need to be changed because you got 6 positive rep for whinging about them.

The old forums were far more lax and attracted a heap of members, however it also drove away the members that we actually wanted those that have real knowledge and experience and have been around the club for a long time. Instead what it attracted were those that just wanted to talk rubbish, which you can do on any number of other forums there is no need to do it here.

I personally was embarassed to be associated with the old forums by the time it was closed down. We have to recognise that the website and forum is the public face of the club and this is something that we are not willing to have tarnished so that people feel more free to do whatever they feel like doing.

[XR Pilot]

Joshstix - Doesn't seem to get much clearer than that, well put forward

I guess with the arguement about restricting crap we are restricting the amount of sign-ups you where referring to me Didn't really mean that by restricting crap it would restrict sign-ups, I meant by restricting the social-aspect of the club, such as heavily moderating non-car discussion, could restrict new sign-ups. Agreed though that crap = evil Just seems that an issue at the moment is defining what exactly is to be considered crap, some of it is pretty obvious but others seem to be a bit of a grey area. One idea that oldcorollas' put forward that seems to have merit is the idea in non-car of locking threads that don't have a discussion purpose, do you think this idea is worth looking further into?

[jonra23]

locking threads that don't have a discussion purpose, do you think this idea is worth looking further into?

Too much work for someone who is a volunteer to do, then the there will be a heap of "my thread got locked by some fascist" threads to deal with.

regards
jon