O-ringing, studs, standard HG?? Enough? Too much?

[Rallystanza]

If you could ask your boss for me next week that would be really good.

So I understand that you would be going for the O-ringing and a copper HG.

Thanks again,

Jeremy

[jeffro ra28]

Thats the only way id go. Better to be safe then sorry. 20-25psi of boost is not a small amount.

Although, felpro have recently released a new 3 composite metal gasket designed for o-ringed applications. But we have not yet seen or had any reports of its performance.

I can pm u his thoughts when i ask him.

[Aust162]

I just had my 3SGTE built by crankshaft rebuilders. I used a cometic 0.5mm metal h/g with arp studs. Im not planning to run 25psi, But i will hopefully run 18-20psi.

[jeffro ra28]

Aust, did u have ur block o-ringed?

[Aust162]

Aust, did u have ur block o-ringed?

No, i didnt. it wasnt even suggested too me.

The guys at crankshaft spoke highly of the cometic h/g's though.

[Big T]

Thanks Eddie.

They will do all the appropriate tests and set the CR, this is part of their quoted job for me.

What sort of boost will you run?

And yeah you can see by the engine specs that i really dont want to screw this up!

So perhaps a 2.0mm metal HG??

Keep em coming and thanks,

Jeremy

I'll be running about 20-22 psi. I'll be using an Eboost2 to have some adjustability for the boost levels though. Don't want to be running that all day on the street!

If anything, i would go for a thinner HG than the 2mm one. Bigworm had the same kinda dillemma with HG's too:

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...t=0#msg_228546

I don't think a higher comp ratio will hurt the engine provided you have the right tuning for it. If you look at more recent turbo cars their ratios are VERY high. Look at the new VW Golf GTI... it has a 10.5 comp. turbocharged engine!

Eddie.

[Rallystanza]

Mmmmm still hard to decide. Are there any other viable options beides the metal HG such as the HKS item or the copper HG combined with O-ringing...

Just want it to last as the rest of the motor should last very well.

The tune will be good.

Il be running an Autronic SM2 with the Autronic CDI unit tuned by their dealer, Beninca Motors.

Jeremy

Happy new year too boys

[takai]

Beninica Motors do good stuff from last time i was in there.

[Rallystanza]

They sure do and they are the guys who have cast doubt upon the head to block sealing...

I cant wait to talk to Joe about it but he comes back on the 16th!

Hence the need for some ideas or ammunition of ideas for me.

Jeremy

[camrygt?]

use a copper head gasket and o rings. Or just the copper gasket if you want to run only around 20 psi or so the o rings are probably a good idea for around 25 psi or more.

The gen 3 3sgte in GT4 and mr2 has a copper head gasket (no o rings) from the factory and there is no negatives that I am aware of with them. My 3sgte has over 200,000km on one copper gasket, running 18 psi with no probs as many others are also.

Make sure the head is machined flat and preferably the block as well as they must be very smooth for metal gaskets to work, definately check your engine builder does this as metal gaskets can't fill in dips and bumps like a composite one can.

Don't use a composite gasket with that much boost as usually the increased pressure in the cylinders will push the gasket out into an oval shape around the bores.

[Rallystanza]

Thanks for the great reply that sounds promising.

I will investigate where i can get a copper HG from and go from there after I speak to the engine builder some more.

Why do all these people take holidays when you need shit done!!

Thanks again,

Jez

[jeffro ra28]

use a copper head gasket and o rings. Or just the copper gasket if you want to run only around 20 psi or so the o rings are probably a good idea for around 25 psi or more.
The gen 3 3sgte in GT4 and mr2 has a copper head gasket (no o rings) from the factory and there is no negatives that I am aware of with them. My 3sgte has over 200,000km on one copper gasket, running 18 psi with no probs as many others are also

No way would i ever run a copper gasket without o-rings. NO-WAY!!!


If you are absolutely positvely 100% confident that your tune up is spot on, u would not run any more then 10-12 psi MAXIMUM of boost on a composition gasket. Metal gaskets more. 20-25 psi is definanantly time for copper gasket WITH O-RINGS.

People may have gotten away with it. But it is seriously not worth doing it twice. I have seen a brand new engine, running 28 pound of boost, after being run full potential for aprox 2 minutes the gaskets had pushed out the side of the cylinder head, the ammount of water entering the cylinders was incredible. The reason the gasket pushed out? O rings on 2 culprit cylinders did not have enough protrusion into the gasket.

Copper gasket with O-rings is the BEST WAY to go. Dont skip this, it may cost u an engine. U dont wat to bend thos rods because of hydraulic lock!

[Rallystanza]

Hey guys,

I spoke to another engine builder today and he said a copper headgasket with o-rings would be great for a race car that gets torn down regularly and also has its oil and water changed all the time because copper HG's leak oil into water and vice-a-versa...

Another engine builder said copper HG would be good to but the block AND the head need to be o-ringed...?

I was having a look around the net the other day and also found this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Multi...ayphotohosting

What are peoples thoughts on something like this?

Will it be up to the task and with or without O-ringing?

Cheers,

Jeremy

[jeffro ra28]

Jeremy,
You can talk to 20 different engine builders and they will probly all have a different way or give you different advice.

I would be getting the guys building the engine to decide which combination to use. If it goes wrong they are the ones responsible for not doing the job incorrectly.

I have had a fair bit of experience with using copper gaskets on O-ringed blocks and somthimes cylinder heads. I can tell you its the best combination for a RACE application.
I have not heard of the Oil passing through to water and visa-versa before, but then i have mostly only delt with engines that dont have the oil cross over between the block and the head.

As i have said above, i have seen a particular case were the O-rings did not protrude fair enogh into the copper gasket and the result was a chronic water leak out the side of the head and also into the cylinders. This is an example of how you should NOT use these gaskets without O-rings.

I totally disagree that a copper gasket without an o ring is a good idea, or even allowable.

[Rallystanza]

Hey Jeffro I totally agree with this decision being up to the engine builder.

It seems that my PSI amounts for this engine would like a copper HG with O-ringing but the drivable non race nature of this car means no copper HG with O-ringing.

So it seems then perhaps a multi layer steel HG such as the one shown in the link above should be used without O-rings.

So Jeff, in your opinion would that multi layer steel gasket suffice?

Thanks again for you advice.

Jeremy