O-ringing, studs, standard HG?? Enough? Too much?

[cri_ag]

penrith toyota either has them, or can get them

excelent, cheers

[sam-131]

umm yeah if you looking to run that much boost i would advise you to run studs for sure and also a steal or copper headgasket but beware there a bi#ch of a thing to seal but other then that there pretty good

i know this is overkill but have you thorght of running a w ring instead of a o ring i have seen many of drag cars runing them some up to 40psi it would cost about the same as o ringing but yeah just some food for thought

just wondering whos nocking up the engine together?

Sam

[Rallystanza]

errr, you cant put orings AND a standard gasket together. nor a laminated steel gasket...

...its EITHER orings and a copper gasket, OR just a plain laminated steel, or stock gasket, with NO ring retainer grooves at all

This is what I don't understand.

No engine builders have said anything about this so far.

Terry Oberne (spelling) suggested an O ring job and a multi layer steel HG. So whats the story??

What are you suggesting Ed?

Sam, CW engines in Nunawading is building the engine.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[ed]

oringing is basically an embedded fire ring, it needs a sofet head gasket to bite into to generate a smooth ring of increased clamping pressure around the cyl bore

a steel gasket a) has its own stamped shape that generates its own fire ring, and b) isnt soft enough to allow an oring to really penetrate properly to create an equal ring of pressure around the cyl...

a stock gasket has steel fire rings built into the gasket around the cyls, and these are designed to crush onto a flat block surface to generate a ring of presuure... adding an oring under one of these is very trecherous indeed

[Rallystanza]

Thanks for the info Ed.

It makes sense to me.

Can I get some more suggestions from people to arm myself with when i talk to some more engine builders when the slackers go back to work....

The engine is built to handle more than 25psi of boost but i will not be running more than that i would think. So base your suggestions around this.

Thank again all for the comments.

Jeremy

[Big T]

Jez,

Just get yourself a HKS metal gasket. They come in 0.7, 1.0, 1.6 and 2.0mm thickness. I picked mine up for about $170 so they're not that expensive. Don't have to worry about o-ringing either.

Eddie.

[Rallystanza]

Jez,

Just get yourself a HKS metal gasket. They come in 0.7, 1.0, 1.6 and 2.0mm thickness. I picked mine up for about $170 so they're not that expensive. Don't have to worry about o-ringing either.

Eddie.

What are the opinions on this option?

How is it determined what thickness i will need. What makes these HKS HG's designed for this use??

What have people been telling you to do Eddie? Did you find that every person had a different opinion on the topic?

Cheers mate,

Jeremy

[takai]

Jeremy: CW Engines == Crankies, right?
They do some very good work there, i had my head done and it is spot on the money.

I think that a standard block, without O-rings as well as a (maybe slightly thicker) metal HG and studs would do that engine fine.
I cant remember, but i assuem you are using GZE pistons rather than trying to hold 25psi on GE pistons.

[Rallystanza]

Yeah CW, the work so far has been fantastic but they have not had much to say about this head issue....

The engine specs are as follow.

7 Rib block
100kW Crank, stess relieved, ground, nitrided and polished( dags removed)
Formula Atlantic/Carillo Rods
ARIAS 20 thou over forged pistons
8.5:1 CR
Ported and polished small port head, all new everything
272 cams, (can't remember the other details)
Adjustable Cam gears

Of course the egine will be turbo charged with a Garrett GT28RS.

It looks like perhaps then i ditch the O ring train and go for a HKS or similar Metal HG.

So how is thikness determined as I would assume this effects the CR?

Thanks heaps guys, this is stressing me out in a big way!

Jez

[Big T]

What are the opinions on this option?

How is it determined what thickness i will need. What makes these HKS HG's designed for this use??

What have people been telling you to do Eddie? Did you find that every person had a different opinion on the topic?

Cheers mate,

Jeremy

Well it depends on the comp. ratio you want. Mine's running a little high at around 9.1:1 even with a 1.6mm HG but i wanted this to get a little more drivability off boost. Plus i have those 272 deg cams and didn't want to ruin squish areas with too thick a HG.

You'll need to get the head/block decked and figure out how much material was shaved off to work out the ratio. I actually forgot about this and did a test afterwards to work out the proper ratio. Only cost $50 but can't remember what the test was called... i'll ask my cousin about it.

Eddie.

Edit: I just saw what your bottom end consists of.... why even consider a standard gasket when you have Formula Atlantic rods in there!!

[Rallystanza]

Thanks Eddie.

They will do all the appropriate tests and set the CR, this is part of their quoted job for me.

What sort of boost will you run?

And yeah you can see by the engine specs that i really dont want to screw this up!

So perhaps a 2.0mm metal HG??

Keep em coming and thanks,

Jeremy

[takai]

Out of curiosity, where did you end up using as a supplier for the Carrillo and Arias parts? Because the place which is supposed to be getting me my rods hasnt done squat sofar.

[Rallystanza]

CW got me the pistons.

A guy called Jamie got me the rods from NZ.

I only have an email for him.

Chers mate,

Jezza

[takai]

Ah ok, ill have a call around in the new year.
Cheers
*we now return you to your usual programming*

[jeffro ra28]

Personally i would not be running over 15psi of boost without O-ringing. We have even o-ringed some engines running NO boost but 12-13 comp ratio.

If this engine place is building the engine, they are the ones that should be advising you.

I can ask my boss for his opinion next week if u like. Have a look at our temporary website if u want to see what we do. (down)

We recently had an experience with an engine that pushed the copper gasket out the sides of the head because the previous owner did not leave enough protrusion on the O-rings. huge ammounts of water were leaking from it.