2-TG N/A Cam Options - Real world results wanted

[71TA22]

Brian,

Standard factory LSA's vary with the camshaft series used over the years so the timing tool is setting the factory spec. for that cam series not 105 degrees for all cams.

LSA's are as follows:

88220 cams - 106 degrees
88222 cams - 112 degrees
88260 cams - 106 degrees
88261 cams - 110 degrees
88262 cams - 108 degrees
88280 cams - 112 degrees
TRD cams - 100 degrees

Your cams could well be re-grinds on 88222 cams. Advancing the inlet by the width of the slot (which is 4 degrees wide) has put your grinds LSA spot on at 108 degrees. Try advancing the inlet by half a slot width and retarding the exhaust by the same (which will give you a 108 degree LSA but slightly different valve opening and closing timing) and see what result you get?

Factory net valve lift for 88220 cams is 375 thou (9.5mm) and 395 thou (10mm) for the others.

[BrianGT]

Brian,

Standard factory LSA's vary with the camshaft series used over the years so the timing tool is setting the factory spec. for that cam series not 105 degrees for all cams.

LSA's are as follows:

88220 cams - 106 degrees
88222 cams - 112 degrees
88260 cams - 106 degrees
88261 cams - 110 degrees
88262 cams - 108 degrees
88280 cams - 112 degrees
TRD cams - 100 degrees

Your cams could well be re-grinds on 88222 cams. Advancing the inlet by the width of the slot (which is 4 degrees wide) has put your grinds LSA spot on at 108 degrees. Try advancing the inlet by half a slot width and retarding the exhaust by the same (which will give you a 108 degree LSA but slightly different valve opening and closing timing) and see what result you get?

Factory net valve lift for 88220 cams is 375 thou (9.5mm) and 395 thou (10mm) for the others.

Thanks Mike......this just get's better and better!

I noticed that the exhaust cam looked about half a slot retarded when I set it all up at TDC..I advanced the inlet by a slot width and the engine just came alive......I can't explain it but it instantly had more response....like it had more urge.
I was worried that the exhaust cam might have to be set at TDC but now I think I will leave it as it runs so well!
Thank you for your help.....I am learning so much from you guys!

[Bos55]

Off the top I am aware this is an old thread, it is however far to valuable to leave stuck halfway down the pile.

For the guys commenting above, 2 years have passed since you noted down your opinions on your cam choices, i hope firstly you are all getting the same enjoyment out of your cars, secondly would any of you care to share an updated opinion on your set ups.

My 2tg will be 85.5mm bore to get me to 1608cc but I am looking to get the most out of my cams for my NA set up. I have what I believe to be stock 222 cams at the moment. I have never driven a 2tg powered car as mine is in its initial rebuild so I'm relying a bit on the experience of those who have played around with them.

Given the car will be a weekender I like the sound of power from 2500 up to 7000 as BrianGT mentioned above. I am aware my capacity difference will effect my rpm band and possibly make it more peaky.

Would love to hear your opinions on your cams and any improvements you have made or would like to make given the opportunity.

Cheers

[TheToyman75]

Simon,

I ended up using the Wade 773A regrinds.
288adv, 246 at 50thou, 405thou lift, 110 deg phase angle.

Compression ratio has been set to 11.2:1 - Hope to have it running over the Summer.
Engine has a 2mm over bore to 87mm and of course the 3TGTE Crank making it 1855cc.

I will post up how it goes once I know. For your build, I strongly recommend a nice lightened flywheel around the 4kg weight and those 222 cams you have are the best factory cam you can use. You should love it.

[w810sc]

1750cc
248/236 @0.050'
260 head
4.3kg flywheel
4-1 headers
2.5 inch exhaust system
4.3 rear
head shaved 0.010'
45 webers
nice and punchy at 110lsa no cam advanced. I had this setup as a daily driver and it was pretty good. Drove the car to work and back with no problems. The idle was fine at 110, small but noticeable lope. I would have liked to advance the intake cam 2 or 4 degrees with a 108lsa for a bit more response down low but never got the chance.

1940cc
255/255 @0.050'
260 head
4-2-1 headers
pretty dead below 3krpm at 110lsa no advance. Not an ideal cam for daily driving as it felt like a slug off the line. You could advance the cams and it would help a bit.

1940cc
252/250 @0.050'
222 head
same as above, pretty dead below 3krpm at 110lsa no advance. Last year I set them up to 108in/112ex and it drove quite well. It had a bit more response down low say from 2krpm.
By the end of the month I plan to have them at 105/108.
I've also got a set of 228 @ 0.050' with 9.3mm lift for the street I want to put in and test.

cheers.

[Tiggeriffic]

Previous build (rally engine)
1940cc
260 head
Compression ratio 10.5:1
Duration 282 [email protected]' /0.25mm. Lift @ valve .410" (10.33mm)(Dont know exact profile as I bought the car with these and didnt get any info with.
Weber 45 DCOE.
This setup was smooth and was very strong from 2500 rpm to 7500rpm. Never had a stutter or a off-cam feeling.

Current build (Rally engine)
1855cc
260 head
Compression 11.9:1
Cosworth L1 profile intake and outlet.
Valve timing 46/78/70/50. Duration 304 [email protected]' /0.25mm. Lift @ valve .410" (10.41mm)
Will be running in December.

[J-M kujala]

With 304 cam (advertised) and 1900cc bottom i will warmly recommend a little bit more lift, 11.5+ and good porting. Extra lift + good porting job give good amount of HP. And not raise the torgue point.

10+ lift with 304 cam and head what cannot flow enough is restrictor. With 1600cc+ bottom it flow enough for the capacity & rpm.

[Tiggeriffic]

Head has been well ported since rebuild. I am also running a set of Wossner pistons and eagle rods.

Will have to see how everything work together. Only time will tell.

[J-M kujala]

Just interesting, did you have flow report vs lift ?

1950cc with wiseco & porting (~230cfm/28"h2o/~12mm) + 304/288 hks +45 Dcoe.
Difference between 300- 288 highlift 12mm cams, otherwise same setup, 15+hp with same rpm. That was so long time a go that exact number are not in my memory.

[Tiggeriffic]

That is interesting. Were you running standard 44mm intake valves?

[J-M kujala]

Yes, engine was with stock valves.

But, stock "size" intake port dont flow enough to high lift cams.

Another case was exhaust, got a lot HP also from there, but that is another story.. And another setup.

Its a known fact that big bottom with high degree cams need high lift & head ported to high lift cam, otherwise its like restrictor.

Maybe thats why most new generation cams like Catcams & Kameari got highlift cam profiles.

CatCams got high & low lift cams.

[TheToyman75]

Simon,

I ended up using the Wade 773A regrinds.
288adv, 246 at 50thou, 405thou lift, 110 deg phase angle.

Compression ratio has been set to 11.2:1 - Hope to have it running over the Summer.
Engine has a 2mm over bore to 87mm and of course the 3TGTE Crank making it 1855cc.

I will post up how it goes once I know. For your build, I strongly recommend a nice lightened flywheel around the 4kg weight and those 222 cams you have are the best factory cam you can use. You should love it.

So the Unicorn turned the Rollers at the ToyotaFest Dyno Day - 89.7kw at the tyres. Not to bad at all.

[ollimpicblue]

forget about cams , for the same price go the long rod short piston route, you,ll never look back

[TheToyman75]

forget about cams , for the same price go the long rod short piston route, you,ll never look back

What Rod and Piston combination do you recommend ? And any examples of the results you are getting and associated limitations on Redline ?

Early Rally engines over here used the 2Y Crank but found it unreliable at high RPM.

[NME308]

forget about cams , for the same price go the long rod short piston route, you,ll never look back

Interesting...
So a long rod with short piston (same stroke??) eh?
"you'll never look back"??
Fill me in on the magic please!

I had a bloke the other night telling me that a lightweight flywheel on his dads landrover made a HUGE difference to the power and engine response while driving in sand. Turned out that at the same time as the lightweight flywheel they had installed lightweight pistons and given the whole engine a birthday...

Cheers,
Jason