Replace my SC12 with WHAT ?..to get a reliable 140-170 kw at the treads

[tomvale13]

sweet, not too clued up on 4/7 age/afe combos, not having owned one myself yet.

(hence, not dreaming of such things)

[Cuzzo]

There is some very good online examples coming out of NZ (around 300kws atfw) but most im sure are not online just some serious race cars (improved production etc)

There is an aw11 on here (NZ) which just got dyno'ed around the high 230-240's on small boost. Something that would be nice in a ke30 if i had a better expendable income i would have one already.

[-GT-]

2ZZ-GE, stroked with angry cams.... you know you want to...

join the band-wagon

It's not a bandwagon till somebody does it.

[GUN METAL]

WHOA !


thanks HEAPS for all the feedback, suggestions etc etc


Let me digest all the comments before i reply.

[Valkyrie]

Previa SC14. Slightly more work than a traditional SC14 swap, but newer and they run a slightly smaller pulley (more boost).

This to me would be the sweet point between to much mucking around and cost. You'd break 150rwk without a problem with your existing setup, and you'd have minimal down time working on the car.

I forgot, superchargers sound way better that hair dryers

[GUN METAL]

Cuzzo, essentially i want to leave it as is, sure more power would be nice but i am happy with it as is, its just the reliability of the SC ......NOW. Its copped a flogging being over driven and tracked (with the 8 grand limit) and lasted me over 5 years completly trouble free problem is the last SC got noisey in less than a couple of months. If i could buy a brand new SC12 and get the same life as i did out of the first one we wouldnt be having this discussion. Cuzzo, what about running 18 PSI with the stock head gasket (actually now i think of it maybe it doesnt, the head was supposeldy off for new valves, cams, porting, but who knows what head gasket/ head stds it has in it now ??????)

Kassma, thanks for all the info and i agree with pretty much everthing you said. you are right about the $ i can get all the nice bits and peices for around 4 k, but i dont have the facility put it all together. I went to a few reputable shops and they came in around the 6 k mark installed (without opening up the engine), so lets say its 2k in labour to do the swap.

eeeyan, unfortunately it is a hassle to do the swap, but besides that i want it reliable, as i said earlier if i could get a new SC12 to last like the first one sure !

Tomvale, you are right, if you score some cheap second hand bits and do all the work yourself it can be done on the cheap. BUT i have tried to do things right and only once on this car, more than happy to spend twice the $ and get it done right, i dont have time for ongoing hassles. 7agte could possibly be ultimate A series engine and yep seen em up to 300 kw at the wheels, unfortunately i dont have the $ to build one nor the $ to keep building one

YLD-16L, Thanks for the detailed break up Shane, i have a list kicking around somewhere that looks pretty much like yours. I think you need to add injectors and few other bits and bobs tho. Yuo are right it is a good package, its fun to drive and even in my unskilled hand(s) has done a low 1:11 at wakefield, its just the SC12 reliability issue. Do you really think a completly stock AE101 is going to handle 18 PSI on the track lap after lap ??????

GT, if i was chasing 200 plus kw its certainly a no brainer, BUT i am not. See shanes list if you do it somewhere close to properly you need at least 4 k in parts, who can do the swap for less than 2 k ?k What you are all seem to be missing is i am happy with the power its just getting another new SC12. From what i have read, considering the amount i have been overdriving it 120mm SCpulley 175 crank pulley and an 8 grand rev limit, and all the track work its seen i have got a great run out of it. the problem is getting a NEW SC12. The other thing is that every other GTE conversion that i know of in an Adub there has been problems with engine bah heat. The turbo basically hits the firewall right next to shift linkages, feul lines, watwer lines and all sorts of stuff. If you had seen the worried look on Brendans face looking his glowing exhaust manifold and everything melting / ready to spontaneously combust near it you may understand what i mean. Oh and not forgetting Fatmr2s car turning itself into a BBQ on wheels for further evidance. i had thought about putting the turbo in the boot muhwahahahahaah............seriously tho i have seen it done before.



terra, i have done a bit of research on the rebuilds but havent had any luck. The noise the first one made sounded like a bearing but at the end of the day it was ditched because 50% of the coating on one rotor was GONE and it was only making like 6 PSI as apposed to the 12 it was making in good nick. The noise its making now sounds like a clearance issue with the gears, weird thing is its intermittent, sonds fine then all of a sudden it sounds like it has those gear drives that those idiot V8 boys use

Trdee, is correct the 6k was a turn key price supply and intall, got prices from CVperformance, ABS in Kirrawee and Ricol all budeted about the same 6k. Mind you CV were not interested unless it got new slugs, crank tested / balanced bla bla bla, was going to be about the 10-12 k mark but they were gaurenteeing 200 plus kw............DER i dont want 200 kw !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

random, The problem with the current one is not the teflon its drive related noise, boost is still fine, but yes i agree with the swint screw efficiency win.

Boona, if i had the time and the physical attributes / space i would certainly like to do it myself but unfortunately i dont, unless someone / people want to put there hand up to spend a week over / under an AW11 engine bay.

Finney, i agree turbo wins hands down for big chaep power from a 4A, its been reliably done in so many cars, its just that they have been predominantly KE/TE/AE Corollas and packaging in an Adub is a different kettle of fish.

Harreh, Ronrons twin screw set up has potential i am sure but it needs alot more RandD and that costs money, not to mention the fact he lives on the other side of the world.

Shrike, looks ok if the quality is there, not sure that manifold would work in an ADUB tho

t-r-h, i agree it doesnt look fantanstic at 90 degree, but thats not allways an issue, it certainly is compact tho but leaves the turbo probly too high in an Adub.

knitrous, the IHI twinscrew has some merit, can you provide some links to anone using one on a 4A, or how bout where you got the info on how they got 21 psi on a 2.3, if that is infact the case it may be too large on a 4A. what are the dims on it, can you take some pics of it with the tape measure on the key dims please. And what are the useual procuremnt channels ??????, so what sort of power at the wheels from the 1mz ??? got any dynos of em you can share

Minki, gret Qwhere do you get em.

Drifty, I agree even thos the sound of the SC12/14 sounds fantastic, they are old tech, not to mention JUST OLD ! I would like to drive some more 4AGTEs, and would have loved to seen how the comparison went with Brendans on the track........but alas no........., sure more wasps looks great on a dyno sheet but i am more interested in power under the curve than a big number. But also the idea of a charger suits my preference to be different (to a point). oh and yep an Adub with a different engine for each day of the week would also be good..unfortunately i only have 1 spot in the garage....................

MR22ZZ, stroked with cams ...hahahaahaahah, sounds fantastic but i dont have 20k to spend unfortunately i would love to get a 1UZ in there but that would pose many challenges and i would be surprised if a stock one made muchy more power at the wheels than 160 kw anyway. mind you it would be a super reliable 160 kw and ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the sound !

Ben, water injection sounds like a goer but it still doesnt help me source a decent SC12 in the first place. Have you still got your set up kicking around. Re your comment on the teflon i concur. But if its not teflon what is it ? and why is it there. in the faulure of my first one it just seemed to peel off. if i ever get some time i will pull it apart, i was surprised at how thick it is.


Valkyrie, i was chasing an SC14 from a previa it all makes sense you dont have to overdrive for the same boost, they are newer and most likely not flogged to death, if i had picked it up thats what would have been on the car now......just didnt happen and picked up the SC12 and did the straight swap. I can say however even the SC12 swap was a biatch and knowing the SC14 is bigger it would have been hammer and lube time to get it in there not to mention the stuffing around with matching up to mounting pts, belt lines and so on. i sort of figured if you are going to the trouble of fitting the SC14 go the next step and get a decent twin screw.......well that what Nick parker and up doing after his SC14 install.......Nick, you out there Nick ????????


What i want to do is keep the thing reliable with the stock bottom end/ exiting top end, if i can get a blower that will reliably pump in 15-17 PSI the more efficient the better / more power drivabilty we should get, hence the original

[finney]

Yeah i know what you mean about packaging a 4agte into an AW11 engine bay, not the easiest of tasks.

On a side note have you considered tuning for E85?

[Lachie]

If you like the setup and don't want to change, there are plently of places that can do teflon coating if you have a look around. Could be an option if you wanted to rebuild the supercharger (if the teflon is indeed the problem), particuarly if bearings are available.

Another alternative would be to contact some coating places and talk about to them about other possiblities besides teflon. Coatings have come a very long way since these chargers were made so there might be something better that can be applied - perhaps DLC?

[knightrous]

knitrous, the IHI twinscrew has some merit, can you provide some links to anone using one on a 4A, or how bout where you got the info on how they got 21 psi on a 2.3, if that is infact the case it may be too large on a 4A. what are the dims on it, can you take some pics of it with the tape measure on the key dims please. And what are the useual procuremnt channels ??????, so what sort of power at the wheels from the 1mz ??? got any dynos of em you can share

Information:
http://autospeed.com/A_110295/cms/article.html
http://forums.mazdaworld.org/index.php?showtopic=4459
http://www.superchargerperformance.c...azda-millennia
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=28378
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116463
http://forums.mazdaworld.org/index.p...0&#entry428231

The unit is roughly a 1000cc - 1200cc blower (Small enough for a 4A), but because it is more efficient it can produce more boost and be spun faster. It's probably pretty close to it's limits on the 2.3L V6 and requires dual intercoolers.

1MZ in AW11, check out Twobrutal they have heaps of information. I'm still working on gathering the parts to do my conversion, not long till I start putting bits into the shell though

[oldcorollas]

if you do go to SC14. you can spin slower for the same boost and keep it more in the efficiency range 8somewhat)

I have yet to see a mazda blower on yahoo and i've been looking for years (that said i'll probably find one tomorrow now )

[Duk]

I'd like to see an Eaton M62 supercharger on a 4AGZE.
The Mercedes 230 Kompressor type looks nice and compact. Hardest thing with them is their huge discharge port and no internal bypass valve like other Eatons SC's.
Pobably much easier to fit than the long Mazda/IHI twin screw SC.

[oldcorollas]

they are not even good for a 2:1 pressure ratio
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_128484.gif

but still better than SC12/14

[Duk]

they are not even good for a 2:1 pressure ratio
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_128484.gif

but still better than SC12/14

Then jam a big turbo onto an exhaust manifold, pump some wind into the Eaton and get decent boost pressure properly

[oldcorollas]

thats it.. but if turbo is hard install into AW11 bay.. turbo plus SC = harder?

the TVS series look orright. efficiency benefit and pressure ratio of a twin screw, but without internal pressure ratio (well.. they are just a twinscrew with no internal compression...)

[Duk]

Once you have the room for the turbo (mainly the clutch slave cylinder bleader bracket and oil filter must be relocated. Air filter location is effected by having an AFM or not) then it's just a pipe from the compressor outlet to the throttle body.
Dump pipe is challenged by space if you keep the aircon. My dump pipe is made from 2.5" doughnut. A 3" doughnut might work too.