2JZGTE VVTi Immobiliser

[grahamd]

Help

My friend in the Netherlands has found a 2JZGTE VVTi motor with Getrag V160 box but this version had an immobiliser fitted to the ECU - and of course the supplier didn't keep the ignition switch with the keys.

Engine starts but can't run properly without the immobiliser.

Anyone know a work aorund this ????

Thanks

[kingmick]

aftermarket computer!

[cambelt]

Yes i think it will be a challenge for him , you could get the jap version ecu which does not run the imobiliser,
Can you guys get any wiring diagrams for the vvti 2jz gte over there.
Dave

[Mos]

Graham,
I wasn't aware that the engine will even start
He will need a Key ECU - afaik they all seem to be the same but I can't be sure.
He will need a transponder type key to go with it.
Normally an additional key can be programmed into the engine ECU though it requires an original master key.
If a master key is not available the engine ECU is able to be "cleared" so any transponder key can be programmed into it without need for a master key - Lexus in the US does that if you send the engine ECU to them, I have yet to check if Lexus in Aus will do it off the street.
Hope this helps.

Edit: Dave, I wasn't aware the JDM ecus didn't have immobilisers - is this certain?

Mos.

[cambelt]

The jdm ecu doesn't have it for sure , i painstakingly dicected the wiring from a 2000 jza 80 , didnt have a transponder and no key ecu , and the engine ran fine , when it was still together.
Its a problem for all the imports as there an easy target for thieves.

[Mos]

Dave - thanks for that - you wouldn't happen to know if that's the same across all JDM ecus?

Graham - a potential possibility would be to get the engine ECU wiped by Lexus and then build a microcontroller based device that would send some sort of pulse stream that the engine ECU would accept as a valid transponder signal. This pulse stream would then mimick the transponder. As I haven't looked at the pulse stream of a working immobiliser I have no idea if this is that simple or gets much more complex...
(Got new toys at work today, so may take a look at the IS200 immobiliser pulse stream this weekend).

Mos.

[Draven]

I cna confirm my JZA80 vvti doesn't have the immobiliser.
Dave... you wouldn't have happened to have kept a record of the wiring diagrams would you? (which I could trade for sex?)

[sideshow]

no ecu in japan has security on it unless its very very new im not sure

and usually if security is on the ecu it wont let u start it

maybe there is another problem with it like its in limp home mode

i have the jap diagrams for the 2j vvti and they dont have any security

if u can compare part number of ecu and see if its a different model then maybe try get diagrams for it and see if there is any security wires goin to the ecu

but if it starts and runs id be lookin at other probs

[cambelt]

Still going thru all the wiring , its not on the priority list so it may be a while,
Dave

[Alchemist]

no ecu in japan has security on it unless its very very new im not sure

The 2ZZ ECU's from the 99+ ZZT231 Celicas use transponder keys, I'm guessing the Sportivo Corollas also do...

A copy of the Supra Manual can be found here, I've not downloaded it yet, so it may or may not help, but no harm in looking?

http://www.mkivsupra.info/man/SUPRA.zip

[grahamd]

Thanks guys

Came back after the weekend and there have beens several postings.

[sideshow]

i recently wired up a jap import 2zz from a sportivo

it had no security on the ecu

[Alchemist]

i recently wired up a jap import 2zz from a sportivo

it had no security on the ecu

Dunno, but on my Dads and friends cars, both ZZT231's specify that the car will not start without a transponder key, we've had copies made, and confirmed they won't start without them....

[3sgte]

There are more than a few different immobiliser systems on different models of Toyota/Lexus.

Some use a separate immobilizer ECU (97 LS comes to mind)
Some use an immobiliser built into the ECM.

A very select few locksmiths in the US/Canada have the ability to wipe the ECM key memory (on a bench). Proof of ownership etc would be needed.

The behaviour described when attempting to start the vehicle certainly sounds plausible for an immobilizer.

Do you have an ability to get any codes out of it?
(presumably OBD2)

[Mos]

Dunno, but on my Dads and friends cars, both ZZT231's specify that the car will not start without a transponder key, we've had copies made, and confirmed they won't start without them....

They're locally delivered, right?
Sideshow was saying jap imports don't have them... It is my understanding that there is a requirement for all locally delivered cars to be fitted with immobilisers - it's more than plausible that JDM vehicle don't have them fitted, and given people's comments it looks this way.

3sgte - I could be wrong in this application but from what I have seen the OBD2 port comes off the body ECU of the vehicle, which communicates with the engine ECU through an Multiplex bus. If they only have the engine ECU chances are they won't have the ability to interrogate the OBD2.

How is the immobiliser implemented in the 97LS? (UCF20/1 I presume?) I'm curious how they differ from the ones "built into the ECM" which I'd presume to be the key tranponder types?

FWIW the key or transponder ECU on the IS200 doesn't appear to be manufactured by Nippon Denso. It gets power whenever the engine ECU turns on the EFI relay and has three data lines running to the engine ECU (and nothing else). AFAIK there is no other immobilisation feature on this vehicle.

Mos.

[3sgte]

3sgte - I could be wrong in this application but from what I have seen the OBD2 port comes off the body ECU of the vehicle, which communicates with the engine ECU through an Multiplex bus. If they only have the engine ECU chances are they won't have the ability to interrogate the OBD2.

How is the immobiliser implemented in the 97LS? (UCF20/1 I presume?) I'm curious how they differ from the ones "built into the ECM" which I'd presume to be the key tranponder types?
Mos.

I'll do what I can to answer...

Here is an older version of what I am familiar with:


This doesn't seem to reflect a system that uses the CAN protocol for communications. Vehicles that use CAN for diagnostic communication are pretty new. If CAN communication is used, then things get a bit more complex.

My WAG is that "SDL" (from illustration) stands for serial data link. (emphasis on guess)

For the LS, both are UCF 20, There was the 1995-1997 version and the version after the update for 1998 that saw discharge lights and VVT come on the 1UZ. It (1997 version) had a separate "TRANSPONDER KEY COMPUTER" which communicated with the key via a transponder key coil.

The 1998 version had the immobiliser function built into the ECM. (all this is US spec, YMMV)

Both versions use ignition key mounted transponders.
Basically, the part which "remembers" the key is different.

Also, some newer models have yet another different version, that doesn't even include those that have "Smart keys"

As for the OP, if you have more info about the vehicle the motor came out of, it might be helpful. Now that I think about it, I don't remember US/Canadian supras having immobilisers fitted STD. Is there a separate little plastic ECU that serves as the immobiliser for your application?

[Alchemist]

They're locally delivered, right?
Sideshow was saying jap imports don't have them... It is my understanding that there is a requirement for all locally delivered cars to be fitted with immobilisers - it's more than plausible that JDM vehicle don't have them fitted, and given people's comments it looks this way.

Correct, and I'll buy that, will be nice and quiet and read on now

[sideshow]

the laws are pretty tough if japan

if u get caught stealing the punishment is big not like in this country where it sux

so car theft in japan is not very big

only in usa and here they sometimes have rules where the car needs to have an imobiliser installed for it to be allowed to be sold here

anyway every immobiliser i have seen does not allow the engine to start

i might be wrong but i recon the prob might be something else and not the immob iliser