Help me get my new daily running right :)

[Bananaman]

Gday lads,

I know its blasphemy to ask about a non toyota here, but its a daily purchased to get around in while my car is finished

Car in question is a 1991 VN commodore wagon, auto. Is the series 2 motor. When one starts it (hot or cold, doesn't really matter), it will run for say 10 secs fine, then suddenly chug splutter and die. Starting it again proves hard to keep it running, have to lightly pump the accelerator to catch it and keep it going... Once its been running for 30 seconds or less it quits this and runs perfectly.

So, i figure it has to be something simple, that relates to controlling idle when its cold or initially started.. I've ordered a new temp sensor because thats all i can think of. Any other ideas?

Cheers
Bardin

[slide86]

i HATE working on these at work. we call these "old" cars when they come in.

- check the IAC, they get pretty blocked up and make them run a bit crappy.
- crank angle sensors are also a common fault, but this would cut the car out when its hot.
- leaking injectors, which would cause it to flood. the fix is to hold the pedal to the floor to start (this tells the ECU its in flood mode)

If you were in SA, i would say just cruise down to my work and i would check teh codes for you with tech 1. if you can try to get the trouble code to flash up then i can check it at work in teh manual for you......

[Bananaman]

Forgive me, but having never really tinkered with an EFI engine, i've no idea what or where said IAC is

CAS seems unlikely, like i said it runs plenty fine once past that initial phase. I'll try the foot to the floor action when i next start it, do i hold it there the whole time, or only while cranking / until its started?

I should really get myself a workshop manual... but beyond getting it running properly now i don't want to have to work on it at all, thats why its a daily and not my ke20

How do i set about checking the trouble codes?

Cheers for the help, +rep

[slide86]

oh sorry.

only hold the foot down while its cranking until its started.

the IAC is the Idle Air Control. Its part of the throttle body. Its a little black solenoid type thing that has bout three wires going into it. You can unscrew it and clean out the port that it goes into. Use carby clean for this. (dont move the Throttle position sensor tho).

Usually they get full of crap and cant get air through and case bad and rough idle.

You have to bridge two terminals on teh diagnostic plug to get the codes to flash up on the dash. its best to have the manual for doing this tho.

i hope that you dont want to do to much to keep it going. they can have a few common things go wrong with them....some small. some not so small.

[Bananaman]

Yeah its a bit of a gamble perhaps, potentially a car i won't have any problems with - potentially a nightmare. I've got faith in the mechanical aspects of the car, aside from the power steering. The headache is electrical gremlins like this

I'll have a look tomorrow at the IAC then, only other thing worth mentioning is that it does idle high, at like 1500rpm odd. Don't have any carby cleaner handy, anything else suitable? I'll grab some if needs be, but i was planning on working on it in the morning before i went anywhere.

When you say don't move the TPS, where is this with relation to the IAC?

Forgive me for asking what are probably stupid questions, but better to be armed with more knowledge than not enough..

Guess i'll try get my hands on a manual then or borrow one, cheers.

[slide86]

the TPS is on the opposite side of the IAC.

the IAC is about an inch LONG and about the diameter of a 20c piece.

The TPS is flat and will be in the middle of the throttle body, on the side. it has two screws that have elongated holes . DONT TOUCH THESE SCREWS. they will mess with teh adjustment.

[Bananaman]

Righto, thanks - i'll try give it a clean tomorrow, and see how things go. Giving it a quick oil change while i'm at it, who knows when it had one last..

[BradW]

To extract codes,
Install a jump wire between the white/black wire (diagnostic terminal) and black wire (earth terminal) on the diagnostic connector. This is a 6 pin plug that will be hanging near the top of the ecu (passenger side kick panel).
Switch the ignition on and count how many times the "Check engine warning lamp" flashes.
Each code is indicated by two series of flashes seperated by a 1.2 second pause. The first series indicates the tens the second series indicates the units. Eg. if there are 3 flashes, a 1.2sec pause then 4 flashes, you have code 34.

Check the codes and let us know what they are. I have a code list here, also a list of ecu terminal voltages, etc.

I would be cleaning the throttle body and IAC valve as suggested as well and see how you go.

Hope this helps.

[Bananaman]

Thanks for that brad, much appreciated! I'll report back on my progress tomorrow

[Bananaman]

Ok, well tomorrow 3 weeks later, i just did the check - when you first turn it on it flashes once, then 4 times. Then a long pause, then 4 times, short pause, 4 times, long pause, 4 times, short pause, etc etc.

That would say 44? Disregarding the first 1 as if it comes in mid cycle?

PMing you brad

[Bananaman]

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl160/vn_aldl.htm

Excellent page, woohoo

[Robbos_Toyotas]

did you get it sorted? are you sure its not the MAF sensor?

[Bananaman]

did you get it sorted? are you sure its not the MAF sensor?

Afraid not - quite the opposite in fact. Tonight i attempted to drive to Cremorne, on my merry way it decided to cut out on me and not start again. Its done this to me once before, but i was able to start it again while i was still rolling along - this time no good though.

Engine check light comes on, shortly followed by a stall. I disconnected the battery and waited, and after doing this for long enough, it would fire up again. Drove another 5 mins, did it again. Repeat process. Decided to give up, turned around, drove for 10min, did it again. Then another 10, did it again.

Needless to say, it was frustrating. Tomorrow i have to get something sorted. If you interpret what code i got earlier as 14 or 44, that points to oxygen sensor or coolant temp sensor - either are both obvious guesses for why it could be running badly, so i will replace both. I'll also call pick n pay and see how much they charge for an ecu - i'd might as well kill as many birds with one stone as possible, assuming the ecu is $30 or less. Probably unnecessary, but its another thing to rule out.

ed: And in answer to your question, i've no idea if its the MAF sensor. That would imply general problems with how it runs would it not? Aside from cutting out this evening, once its past its initial starting woes, it seems to run fine. The plan is to do what i've listed above, then check the codes again.

[Bananaman]

Grr, i've just changed the oxygen sensor, and i have a coolant sensor here, but i can't find it on the motor! Anyone know where its located?

Thanks

[kingmick]

cant remmeber were the water sensor is but this might help!

the times ive had to fix VN v6 in a saloon car with similar problem it was the ignition{borrow one to test} module and the other it was the fuel pump or its way out.

[Robbos_Toyotas]

fuel pump relay playing funny buggers?

Yeah MAF semsor would generally cause it to run shitty constantly...once again...generally...cars and electronics are weird things...

[Hibba]

Yeah MAF semsor would generally cause it to run shitty constantly...once again...generally...cars and electronics are weird things...

Alas VN doesn't run a MAF only MAP

[slide86]

sounds like you may have a crank angle senosr fault there too. they are prety common to stuff up on these engines.

they will cut out, and when they cool down, they will let you start and drive until they get hot again. then they will make the engine stall. sounds like whats going on with your beast.

i think the coolant temp sensor is at the front of the intake manifold, under the alternator??? (its been a while since i touched a VN at work). they come in and out pretty easy tho.

[EldarO]

Gday lads,

I know its blasphemy to ask about a non toyota here, but its a daily purchased to get around in while my car is finished

Car in question is a 1991 VN commodore wagon, auto. Is the series 2 motor. When one starts it (hot or cold, doesn't really matter), it will run for say 10 secs fine, then suddenly chug splutter and die. Starting it again proves hard to keep it running, have to lightly pump the accelerator to catch it and keep it going... Once its been running for 30 seconds or less it quits this and runs perfectly.

So, i figure it has to be something simple, that relates to controlling idle when its cold or initially started.. I've ordered a new temp sensor because thats all i can think of. Any other ideas?

Cheers
Bardin

PROBLEM FOUND!

Eldar.O.

sounds like cold start? thats the only thing i can think of that runs just after you turn the motor on for a short while.

[Bananaman]

I eventually found the coolant sensor, its under the alternator like you said slide86, i wasted half a day trying to find the stupid thing

Fuel pump is running, i know because i can hear it these days, haha. I'll get a replacement for that on tuesday anyway, but its still working fine. I'll finish off changing these two sensors, then ill check codes again, and see how it runs before i go screwing with the CAS.

Annoyingly, a barb i removed on the inlet manifold to the water pump decided to crumble and break, so i couldn't put it back together today anyway, i'll get one tomorrow.

EldarO, i was intending on getting a corolla shitter for a daily, but no such luck. Came to the crunch and this car was good value, and i needed a way of getting around ASAP. Beggars can't be choosers. And don't be forgetting that this fine beast was also sold by Toyota