T3 Camber Top Spherical Bearings?

[MWP]

Hi guys,

The spherical bearing in these RA28 T3 camber tops are shot.
The teflon liner has been pushed out of the bearing

Does anyone know what the bearing part number is?
Where to get replacements, etc?

Thanks

[andrew_mx83]

Not T3 specific (or even particularly specific to your question), but given how often these things tend to flog out Ive pondered about adding a thrust bearing under the spherical to take some of the pounding load, but TBH havent put enough thought in as to what bearing should be used and how it should be mounted etc or if it'll even work.


ill probably end up making cambertops for my cressy at some stage and dream something up then, but curious if anybody else has any thoughts on this?

[MWP]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a single spherical bearing at the top, as long as it's the right type and large enough to take the load.
It seems the majority of the top's just aren't made to last.

[jondee86]

Spherical bearings have decent radial load capacity, but poor axial load capacity. The teflon lining is to make the bearing self-lubricating, and does not take kindly to high impact loads. Plus axial loading tends to cause binding which increases steering effort thru spring wind-up.

The spherical bearing was an available solution when coilovers were only used in racecars that were regularly re-built, including replacing the metal on metal bearings. But now that coilovers are being used in daily drivers that see a lot of miles with minimal maintenance on less than perfect road surfaces, spherical bearings come up short.

Some of the newer coilover designs address these problems by incorporating a deep groove ball bearing in place of the spherical bearing. This improves the axial load capacity and eliminates binding by combining the functions of a spherical bearing and thrust bearing in a single unit.

For example, the Fortune Auto 500 Series offers radial bearings as an optional upgrade, and Shockworks include them as standard on AE86 coilovers.

Cheers... jondee86

[MWP]

Using deep groove bearings is nothing new... its what the factory Toyota strut tops use.
The problem is they only rotate, so you need the rubber or silicone surround to add the extra movement.

I've found out the bearing that T3 use is rated to approx 7,000lb axial load.
The spherical bearings that TTE used in rally suspension tops is rated to 11,500lb axial load.
Quite a difference.

[aus jd 2703]

if you send me a part number and dimensions ill get you a price on some Teflon lined "race spec" bearings mark.

[MWP]

The bearing T3 uses is FKS10T.

[caam]

Not T3 specific (or even particularly specific to your question), but given how often these things tend to flog out Ive pondered about adding a thrust bearing under the spherical to take some of the pounding load,

Like this? I use them in my car.
https://technotoytuning.com/toyota/t...per-hat-system

[MWP]

Like this? I use them in my car.
https://technotoytuning.com/toyota/t...per-hat-system

Yeah, i don't like the look of those at all.
IMHO it seems like T3 under specced the top bearing, so instead of fixing it they came up with this extra product they could sell instead.

The problems i see with them:
- They don't seat the spring on axis with the shock (if you run lots of camber or caster, so the spring would be seated way off axis from the shock)
- They add another failure point (the needle bearing)
- The bearing doesn't appear to be sealed at all
- It doesn't remove harsh shock loads from the spherical bearing (which is what does the main damage to the spherical bearing)
- and, no one else does it this way (probably for a good reason).

I would much prefer to just use a decent sized / spec'ed spherical bearing top.

[caam]

?? I don't think you understand how they work mate.
They do sit in axis with the shock. They work in the same sense as the 'normal' top hats. I have 5 deg caster 2.5 camber and I can assure you they are in alignment.
and they take the entire load of the spring and transfer the load to the camber top rather then the spherical bearing? How would this not remove the harsh load?
Rather then having the entire 300KG corner trying to punch up through one little bearing which now only has to deal with the shocks resistance.
I do agree it adds a different failure point though.
I dont use the T3 camber tops, they are pretty but over priced imo.

Cam

Yeah, i don't like the look of those at all.
IMHO it seems like T3 under specced the top bearing, so instead of fixing it they came up with this extra product they could sell instead.

The problems i see with them:
- They don't seat the spring on axis with the shock (if you run lots of camber or caster, so the spring would be seated way off axis from the shock)
- They add another failure point (the needle bearing)
- The bearing doesn't appear to be sealed at all
- It doesn't remove harsh shock loads from the spherical bearing (which is what does the main damage to the spherical bearing)
- and, no one else does it this way (probably for a good reason).

I would much prefer to just use a decent sized / spec'ed spherical bearing top.

[MWP]

The needle bearing sits up against the bottom plate of the camber top right?

[MWP]

Works like this doesn't it?
See the spring seats are not parallel...

and they take the entire load of the spring and transfer the load to the camber top rather then the spherical bearing? How would this not remove the harsh load?

So where does the load from the shock absorber go then?

The spring only takes the weight of the car.
The shock absorber / damper is what controls movement, and its load still goes up through that spherical bearing.

[aus jd 2703]

my under standing is the needle roller thrust bearing is purely to make the steering smoother, cant see it extending life in any way. its an open needle roller, dust will detstroy that quickly.

I under stand it rests on the Gold part of the strut top, it really needs a spherical thrust between it and the top, that would take the load of the plain bearing in the top hat, but really all you have done is added a load bearing " sleeve"

spherical plain bearings are acceptable this application just need to be sized accordingly.

the perfect solution would be a pair of plain spherical thrust (taking out the camber and caster angles). will look into it a bit more.

[Celica RA45]

the t3 are crap buy your self some cusco 1s, so much better and are still going in my race car

[MWP]

Cusco use a MBWT18 bearing which is quite a bit larger than T3 use.