Possible New Project - AE92 With worked 4age or 4AGZE conversion

[trd_st184]

Hey all,
I am considering a possible downsize and want to return to the fabled 4ag platform. My ideas so far have been to find a AE92 CSI Sedan with the stock 4afe that i'd drive around in till I find either a 4age motor or a 4agze from a ae101 (preferably from a ae92 trueno would be even more convenient).

I am moving towards the 4agze motor due to the sound it produces, as well as the impressive power response.

The 4age motor option would have a nice set of cams and i'd dream of a set of ITB and trumpets.

I have thought of just buying a Corolla SX but I was looking forward to doing a cluster swap on the Sedan model and enjoying finding the components required to bring it up to Levin/Trueno spec.

I also have a thing for the sedan model as it was the first car I learnt to drive manual in, so I guess it would be a great little run about to get me around

[maj]

In all honesty, for "sound" and "response", you want to stick with a 4AG rather than a GZE. GZE's sound like lazy lumps and don't particularly want to rev, but they just produce surprising amounts of torque for what they are. I'd drive both before making up your mind, unless you find something not particularly expensive.

A tidy AE101 GZE with crank pulley will net you over 100kW at the wheels though, so in a smaller car they are incredibly fun.

I'm not particularly a fan of any ADM delivered AE92/93, I quite like the JDM AE92's and AE101's though. There's a JDM AE92 bigport GZE for sale here in Canberra actually with a fair asking price on it, just needs a small amount of tidying up bodywise but mechanically sounds great.

If you wanted something truly exciting though, GZE bottom end with 20v head and 20v pistons, ITB's and aftermarket ECU would be the easiest combo to build. 7A 20v's are even more fun and the block is cheaper, but you need to plan your crank/rod combination a little bit better, and the increase in displacement means engineering is a must.

My only other thoughts, Going from an AWD ST215 to a FWD 4AG would feel incredibly backward to me, unless you want something incredibly light and chuckable. I'd prefer to at least stay RWD.

[trd_st184]

In all honesty, for "sound" and "response", you want to stick with a 4AG rather than a GZE. GZE's sound like lazy lumps and don't particularly want to rev, but they just produce surprising amounts of torque for what they are. I'd drive both before making up your mind, unless you find something not particularly expensive.

A tidy AE101 GZE with crank pulley will net you over 100kW at the wheels though, so in a smaller car they are incredibly fun.

I'm not particularly a fan of any ADM delivered AE92/93, I quite like the JDM AE92's and AE101's though. There's a JDM AE92 bigport GZE for sale here in Canberra actually with a fair asking price on it, just needs a small amount of tidying up bodywise but mechanically sounds great.

If you wanted something truly exciting though, GZE bottom end with 20v head and 20v pistons, ITB's and aftermarket ECU would be the easiest combo to build. 7A 20v's are even more fun and the block is cheaper, but you need to plan your crank/rod combination a little bit better, and the increase in displacement means engineering is a must.

My only other thoughts, Going from an AWD ST215 to a FWD 4AG would feel incredibly backward to me, unless you want something incredibly light and chuckable. I'd prefer to at least stay RWD.

Thanks mate much appreciated

The current car at the moment would be around 140-150kw atw but my aim is to downsize and part of that would no doubt be a power sacrifice. For the first few months till I am building up finances for the project I would still be cruising around in the stock 4afe motor. The concept of the GZE bottom end, 20v head and 20v pistons, itbs and aftermarket ecu sounds awesome. I would love piecing together all the bits required. The main part would be ensuring that I could make a reliable build. I'd be wanting to rebuild it myself.

The difference from AWD to FWD isn't too much of a problem since its still a daily, and i'd still want to run an LSD gearbox long term.

I read up that the sedan ae92 are actually lighter than the seca and hatch (marginally), but i'm hoping to make it look pretty neat. It will be a daily but i'm sure i'll enjoy driving it up the hills.


I've never heard a 4age with ITB's before. Wonder what I might have to do to make it legal lol. The great thing about installing a 4age in a CSI ae92 is that there is no engineering required because the same motor was available in the country in a different model.

[maj]

ITB's can be legal, just depends how you approach it.

Usually the best way to avoid cops hassling you is to airbox around the trumpets, but then means you are stuck with that solution whether you like it or not (a lot harder to swap trumpets), luckily for 20v heads there are a few good solutions out there and a lot of handy info before making the decision.

The other method is to put socks on your trumpets, which means you still get all the awesome induction noise, but you will still attract attention and it'll be up to the cops mood on the day and his own knowledge whether or not you get in trouble. Also keep in mind EGR kit etc. needs to be maintained.

The only major issue I forsee is the tight rules Vicroads have with aftermarket ECU's. If you want to run ITB's you will need an aftermarket ECU. Best of luck with that.

The easiest way to do it by the book, is to get the chassis you want, then just do a direct 20v blacktop swap, and do a few mild mods to it so you can still run the stock 20v ECU. Blacktops need a lot of revs to start dancing, but when they do they sound awesome, so a tuned exhaust system etc. will make you forget about the lack in power too.

My old daily was around 145-150 atw too, I still love driving it every so often but I've also made the decision I can cope with less power for a daily, but only in the form of a midship GZE, still need to get those plans in motion though.
Right now most of the time I'm in my missus NA AWD, which is cruisey enough but would annoy me other than the fact it's our family hauler.

[trd_st184]

Thanks for the info much appreciated.

I actually bought a ae92 sedan, it happened to be a CSX model so its only got a 4afc motor. I'd need to get quite a few bits from a Corolla SX if I wanted to build a 4age 16v, and no doubt the same components if I wanted to run a 20v blacktop or

I used to have a silvertop 20v in a corolla sx and it was really great fun. I'm not sure which option to take in the future, i've got a good 6 months or so to plan. The conversion was super easy, mind you I didn't do the wiring (got toyospares to do it a fair few years ago) for about $750 to make me up the loom.

On one hand the 4agze offers excellent driveability, but any 4age worked or a factory 20v would be really impressive too.

The Ae92 sedan I got is stock as a rock lol

[kiwi]

Drop the girl on a diet, add in 20valves and your going to smile.

[maj]

If you go 20v, make sure it's blacktop.

Not sure you could remove substantial weight from the car without really giving it some thought, but stuff like seats and steering wheel would be the first easy steps.

get rid of some of the body moulding, add a subtle front lip and side spats, get some slim weather strips etc. and it'll look that little bit more aggressive.

Of course some of those add weight though.. So there's a compromise between performance and style.

[kiwi]

Silver is stronger.

loose heater/fan and soundsystem as they slow you down. ditch the seats for lightweight buckets and backseats are not needed.

go extreme with sound deadining and lower dash. Fiberglass bonett.

That's what i did to the 82 and she goes like a stabbed rat. All up she is 815kg +/- 2kg with 104kw.

[maj]

It's still going to be a daily, not a race car, so in Melbourne weather would be the WORST idea to remove heating and cooling system, although agreed its an easy way to shed weight.

[Harreh]

In all honesty, for "sound" and "response", you want to stick with a 4AG rather than a GZE. GZE's sound like lazy lumps and don't particularly want to rev, but they just produce surprising amounts of torque for what they are. I'd drive both before making up your mind, unless you find something not particularly expensive.

Oh my... Maybe an auto 4AGZE perhaps...

Seriously if you want any reasonable amount of power without going mental then the GZE is the way to go. I'm not sure how they sound like lazy lumps and dont particularly want to rev either. Mine in any stage of my nuild revved up quicker and happier than the smallport it replaced. It certainly didnt sound like a lazy lump at any stage either, infact with the exhaust I had on the car, plus the massively over driven SC with no AFM the car sounded like a shrieking banshee farting out a plague of hornets

As for response, towards the end of my GZE build the response was unquestionable, it immediately pinned you into your seat when you stomped on it. Even in stock trim it was far more responsive than any NA 4A I've been in. As opposed to the response from most NA engines whereby they are response in that it does nothing immediately.

I've driven all revisions of the 4A in almost every single platform they have been delivered in, and almost every oddity version of it from 200kw turbos to 125kw NA engines, I can assure you that the most responsive, and the most fun is always the SC variants - it's just a shame that at reasonable power levels you begin to see issues coming up from fundamental flaws in the design.

[maj]

Okay so I might have been misinterpreted slightly, and I agree with your explanation regarding instant power/torque on the GZE, and no I don't just mean my Auto; I've been in a manual GZE and a manual 4AG AE82, but only as a passenger, before I even bought my auto GZE.

The 4AG's sound so much more like an engine that like singing and dancing at higher RPM, whereas the GZE sounds like a much bigger engine than what it is. I personally think they still sound lazy but are more inclined to move once you plant your foot, if this is what you mean by instant "response" then yes, whereas 4AG's "reponse" comes in the form of revs increase dramatically upon planting your foot, but yeah don't expect the car to start running away instantly, you need to wait for them to build revs before it'll reward you.

Everyone drives differently and learning to drive in an AE92 sedan, going back to an NA might feel more natural. For me driving a turbo all the time going to the SC felt natural because there was a lot of driving under partial throttle to get where I needed to go, or just planting it a little more for a lot more pull. I just found that on stock boost levels, the GZE never particularly rewarded you when giving it over 80% throttle; it felt much of a muchness to giving it anywhere between 50-80% than it did 80-100%, with the only exception being on takeoff.

From a conversion perspective, going to a 4AG without engineering would definitely be a positive. If you were interested in numbers though, you have to invest quite a bit in a 4AG to get it over 100kW at the wheels, whereas a well kept GZE with increased boost will make that easily.

[Harreh]

Okay so I might have been misinterpreted slightly, and I agree with your explanation regarding instant power/torque on the GZE, and no I don't just mean my Auto; I've been in a manual GZE and a manual 4AG AE82, but only as a passenger, before I even bought my auto GZE.

The 4AG's sound so much more like an engine that like singing and dancing at higher RPM, whereas the GZE sounds like a much bigger engine than what it is. I personally think they still sound lazy but are more inclined to move once you plant your foot, if this is what you mean by instant "response" then yes, whereas 4AG's "reponse" comes in the form of revs increase dramatically upon planting your foot, but yeah don't expect the car to start running away instantly, you need to wait for them to build revs before it'll reward you

Hangon, so if the GZE is capable of moving faster than an NA 4AGE but not increasing revs, while an NA 4AGE can increase revs faster than the more powerful engine of the same capacity but not increase it's speeds.

I'm inclined to believe you may have been in a car with a slipping clutch from your description. Under no situation does a 4AGZE actually sound bigger than it is, it feels bigger due to the fact that it makes more power, but it is just as raspy in the exhaust as any high powered 4A, and less throaty on the intake due to the SC

Perhaps engine suggestions are better left to people who have owned and driven the engines in discussion

[kiwi]

TBH, 4agze > 4age. Makes much more power and tourque.
Saying that, light car makes up the difference.

[Hiro]

Hangon, so if the GZE is capable of moving faster than an NA 4AGE but not increasing revs, while an NA 4AGE can increase revs faster than the more powerful engine of the same capacity but not increase it's speeds.

Different gearing (E-series vs C-series) might have something to do with it?

[Harreh]

Different gearing (E-series vs C-series) might have something to do with it?

I thought of that, but I don't think that's what he was getting at