2TG choice

[Noof]

Hi All,
Have a choice to make regarding an engine build.

88222 or 88261 head for a N/A 2tg?
Not trying to break any dyno records here and have a pretty strict budget at the moment.
Have block done ready with 40 thou oversize pistons (cant remember details of pistons but can check later if important).

Have done a little reading, 222 have slightly greater lifting cams and 261 has double valve springs but other than that the heads are pretty much the same. Should I just pick the head in better nick? Or go with the 261 head and put the 222 cams in it for a little more?
Like I said above this is my first build so simple is good for me! Opinions appreciated.
Thanks
Nathan

[caam]

Hey mate,
if simple and cheap is your build, go for the head in better nick easily.
Either way you still have a badass 2T-G that'll wetten panties all day every day.

If you have both of the heads pull the double valve springs and chuck them in the 222 head

Take it easy
Cam

[MorGo]

Take the -222 head and install the -261 inner springs to -222 outer springs.They are tight fit but so they should be.
I have made "X" in the wall for every "G" head that came in with straight valves.There is just one "X"..
And I have done a few of them.

[Noof]

Thanks,
Will look at the two heads and see if there is one which stands out.
222 cams
261 springs

Cheers

[Celica RA45]

the 260 head has the most ribbing in it for strength around spark plug holes etc also this head flowed a bit better .it would be good if the right carbies were with it
from memory 34chokes 135 mains and 150 airs and 55pumps

[J-M kujala]

Double 26# double springs are to weak for 222 cams

Single 220 & 222 springs got a lot higher spring rate than any double ones got.

So like morgo says combo with single outer & double inner is good combo for stock cams.
Some used 26# doble springs got valve seat pressure just over 15 KG, They are to weak to 222 cams.
Have measured between 15-20 kg.

If you dont believe, take springs and measure them in spring tester.

[jb_22]

Interesting what you say about valve springs Morgo & Kujala - I have indeed made this same mistake. I ordered new double valve springs and they don't improve redline/revving over singles at all.. I noticed the difference in thickness/clamping pressure when putting them, but decided to keep the double valve outers on the argument they are designed so the inner & outer spring harmonics cancel. I thought maybe the original 222 springs might upset this spring harmonics.

Next time the head is off perhaps I will change the outer springs to the 222 ones lying in the shed.

And just incase Noof - I made a valve remover from a large G-clamp & 70-100mm length of water pipe with a V cut to reach the colettes with a screwdriver

Hehe good luck, pick the head with straight valves

[caam]

jb can you post up a photo of your valve puller?
Would like to copy!

cam

[jb_22]

Does the trick! Threaded end of G-clamp goes onto valve face & the tube onto the valve spring retainer.

Maybe don't make the tube too long so the clamp can't open enough. 70-80mm is best.

[Noof]

Very nice JB. I think I will make a 'JB Valve Clamp' too.
Cheers

[liteace]

Pineapple racing and another cali or puerto rico shop have awesome T series bits and tools

[Noof]

Hi again,
know this is an old thread but I have a probably novice question.

Given the 261 springs are too weak for the 222 cams... what happens?
Surely not trouble with the valve closing as the clearances should see to that?
Any help educating me would be appreciated.
Thanks
Nathan

[ToyTA22]

Hi again,
know this is an old thread but I have a probably novice question.

Given the 261 springs are too weak for the 222 cams... what happens?
Surely not trouble with the valve closing as the clearances should see to that?
Any help educating me would be appreciated.
Thanks
Nathan

Hi Nathan
the 222 cams have a higher lift which at higher revs sets up different harmonics and off seat spring pressure which can bring valve bounce at high revs and possible spring breakage over time, which makes a horrible mess with OHC engines.
Simply if you don't need to use high revs, general road driving, the 261 double springs should last up to about 6000 rpm repeatedly if springs are new or near new. After those revs I could not say what result you would have.
also if your 222 cams are used, which I would say they are well used, check for chipping, overheating and gouging on lobe surfaces. Also keep lifters/followers in original order in head due to wear pattern. In former cases I have seen followers which disintegrated due to being put in different position on camshaft

[Noof]

Thanks ToyTA22,
Yeah that is pretty much what I have read on here and it kind of makes sense if you don't look too hard at it but .........the cam lobe height is the only thing that is different right? Which would translate to a different spring amplitude not frequency?

So the 261 cams would oscillate the valve springs at the same frequency at given revs so any resonant behaviour the 261 cams and springs would show too?. I am guessing (somewhat educated guessing?) that the damping might be different leading to a underdamped oscillator? so when you get the resonant frequency (revs) with the underdamped 261 springs, the valve bounces through resonant effects.

There is a potential benefit here..... The benefit would be that if you could get the springs to resonate through some frequency(rev) band then the valves would be easier to open ??? more power???

Logical? or just rubbish?

Might see if I can provide some figures to back all this up but physics is just my day job.
Anyone else got an opinion?
Cheers
Nathan

[Noof]

I have another stupid question.
Why not just use the 222 valve springs? Why put the inner 261s in?
Surely the 222s work just as well by themselves?
?
?