silver top with black top ecu

[Toyo81]

Got the engine start it. stay on, but can't Rev. it shocks.
I connected the map sensor with a tee, left one side open that's how the car stays on if i cap it, dies, and the isc is cap but loose so air flow will pass trough, other wise the engine will not start.
Any ideas why i can't rev,. I have all the sensor connected. Any feed back will be appreciated.
running waste spark with twin coil pack, Igniter is Toyota #dhc1.
Thanks

[dumbass]

y wasted spark
u really should keep it close to factory
when trying to diagnose
sounds like a shit conversion cause u r using soo many differnet parts
anyway thats y u are having so many issues

check map sensor signal
i had wires back to front and would not rev out

[Toyo81]

map signal is ok. i will like to be able to fire the plugs normal, but sh.. happens, the only part not Toyota is the coil pack. I will like to use cop's. still no luck.

[jondee86]

AFAIK both the blacktop and silvertop engines had a distributor and one single pole coil. This means the ECU will have a single ignition output to the coil. To run twin two pole coil packs (GZE, Mitsi, Subi etc) in wasted spark mode, you need a dual channel igniter and an ECU with two ignition outputs. Have you checked that both coil packs are sparking ??

If you have a tee in the MAP sensor hose, with one leg open to atmosphere, you have a vacuum leak, and the MAP sensor will be signaling WOT to the ECU. I would expect the engine to be running rich.

What happens if you run the engine and take the cap off the ISCV ?? Does it idle at 3000-4000 rpm ??

Cheers... jondee86

[dumbass]

shit happens all the time
ive learnt alot over past 20 years and if somethign is going to turn to shit
i wont start the job

anyway good luck with it
cant really help anymore as i dont really understand half the shit u have done heheheheh

[Toyo81]

Thanks dumbass for your help.

Hi jondee86. On the igniter i have the signal going to both coil, they both are firing.. will check if both coils are sparking at the same time. The iscv is missing, cap is on the big side, if i remove it wont start. socks to much air.

It's better to use cop's?? Maybe that's my problem..

How can i fire both coil with out been wasted spark?
I am new to this, i got the car half done, the guy that got from, know less then I. he still owes me some parts for it.

[jondee86]

Wasted spark ignition on a 4-stroke engine is generally understood to mean that the plug fires once at the end of the compression stroke, and once at the end of the exhaust stroke. The spark at the end of the exhaust stroke does nothing, and is "wasted". Here is a nice animation that shows how it works... Wasted and Non Wasted Spark Ignition

In a standard 4-cylinder single coil and distributor setup (ST or BT 4AGE) the coil fires four times for every two revolutions of the crankshaft (720 deg). But since 2-post coils only fire two cylinders, they only need to spark twice for every two revolutions, that is, half as often.

If you fire both 2-post coils simultaneously from a single channel igniter, they will spark four times for every two revolutions. Referring to the animation, you would be getting a spark every time the piston changed direction, which means spark at the start of the compression stroke. If there is enough fuel in the charge to burn, then the charge will ignite. I don't know exactly what this does to the engine, but I am sure its not good !!!

That is why you need a dual channel igniter and an ECU with two ignition outputs. Then the coils only fire twice per every two revolutions of the crankshaft, with the timing staggered. That is, each alternative coil is fired every 180 deg of crankshaft rotation.

Cheers... jondee86

[dumbass]

Where is the fking distributor
I just don't understand y its so hard to go back to factory setup

[jondee86]

It's better to use cop's?? Maybe that's my problem..

Coil on plug ignition (COP's) is basically just four single post coils that sit directly on top of the plugs to eliminate the high tension lead. They can either be "smart" with a buit-in igniter, or they can be "dumb" without the built-in igniter. Dumb COP's running in wasted spark mode would usually be controlled by a 4-channel igniter and an ECU with two ignition output, as shown here... http://www.linkecu.com/support/docum...%20Example.pdf

However, there are people running them from a single channel igniter so that all four COP's fire at the same time. There was a big thread on Club4AG before the forum crash. Theoretically the spark at the start of the compression stroke should be a problem, but it seems that in practice it was not. Maybe that is why your engine runs with your setup, because you are effectively doing the same thing with 2 x 2-post coils. Perhaps the mixture needs to be compressed before it will ignite ?

Where do you get the timing signal from ? Do you still have the base of the distributor hooked up ??

Cheers... jondee86

[Toyo81]

dambass i wich i can go to factory set up. but the distrutor don't fit. to close to the firewall.
jondee86 i have the base of the distributor connected. signal from there goes to ecu from there to igniter, from igniter to coils.
i connected another igniter to the second coil with same results. When you said ignition output, what do you mean by it? that would be the igt and igf right.

[dnegative]

Put the dizzy on the front cam gear?

[Toyo81]

no money for adapter

[dumbass]

it would be cheaper to sell the car hehe

[jondee86]

When you said ignition output, what do you mean by it? that would be the igt and igf right.

Two ignition outputs from the ECU means that the ECU has an IGT1 and an IGT2. One for each channel on a 2-channel igniter. The ECU uses these IGT outputs to trigger each channel of the igniter separately, so that the coils fire in sequence, not at the same time. Unfortunately, you cannot get two separate IGT signals out of a blacktop ECU. No matter how you hook up the coils and igniters, there is still only one ignition trigger signal.

Cheers... jondee86