How high can a 16 V engine be revved?

[racermr2]

Thanks guys for your responses. However, I'd like your additional recommendations for a camshaft. Specifically, using the aforementioned parameters in relation to C.R., stock intake, stock valve sizes, etc. what mfg'er, duration, lift would get me 190-200 HP. I realize no one can give an exact recommendation but what is a close approximation. As an update, I have purchased Toda single springs, Wiseco pistons, ACL race bearings, a new 42mm crank from Toyota, Carillo rods +.125 center to center length, a custon Tilton steel flywheel with 5.5" twin disc clutch. Also, any recommendations on using asymmetrical cams, e.g a longer duration exhaust over an intake or should they both be the same. Where is the sweet spot for torque vs. horsepower on your recommendation(s) e.g. max torque @ this RPM and max HP @ this RPM. Lastly, any recommendations on cam center line e.g. 96, 99, 102, 105 degrees? There has been a lot of discussion here in the USA as which centerline gives the best torque and HP. I'd like the recommendations of those who may or have done it. Thx. Racermr2

[oldeskewltoy]

Thanks guys for your responses. However, I'd like your additional recommendations for a camshaft. Specifically, using the aforementioned parameters in relation to C.R., stock intake, stock valve sizes, etc. what mfg'er, duration, lift would get me 190-200 HP. I realize no one can give an exact recommendation but what is a close approximation. As an update, I have purchased Toda single springs, Wiseco pistons, ACL race bearings, a new 42mm crank from Toyota, Carillo rods +.125 center to center length, a custon Tilton steel flywheel with 5.5" twin disc clutch. Also, any recommendations on using asymmetrical cams, e.g a longer duration exhaust over an intake or should they both be the same. Where is the sweet spot for torque vs. horsepower on your recommendation(s) e.g. max torque @ this RPM and max HP @ this RPM. Lastly, any recommendations on cam center line e.g. 96, 99, 102, 105 degrees? There has been a lot of discussion here in the USA as which centerline gives the best torque and HP. I'd like the recommendations of those who may or have done it. Thx. Racermr2

Are you sure those rods, will work with your pistons, and block?

Are those off-the-shelf Wiseco pistons? Photo?


You will not get to 190+ hp without serious port work.

[BrianGT]

I really don't want to sound negative but getting 200 bhp from that engine needs serious skill as well as the "right parts".....two friends rally serious spec engines and are not at that figure!
Best of luck, i hope you achieve it.

[racermr2]

Are you sure those rods, will work with your pistons, and block?

Are those off-the-shelf Wiseco pistons? Photo?


You will not get to 190+ hp without serious port work.

Guys let me provide some additional info that has not been put forth as of yet. 1.) The head is a Formula Atlantic head that has had the 32mm valves removed and special contoured 30mm intake and tulip exhaust valves. 2.) The seats have been extensively reworked to be a radiused configuration using berillium material. Seat work performed by CRD Developments in North Carolina. 3.)The porting refinements are being done by Endyn in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. 4.)The combustion chanbers have bee done per recommendations from Oldeskewltoy, Billzilla, and Endyn. 5.) Further, the combustion chambers have been mapped on a CNC mill and the specs have been sent to Wiseco for building custom pistom pistons. 6.) The rods are +.125 in length and this spec has been communicated to Wiseco so that the appropriate skirt design, pin height, and ring land can be implemented. 7.)The piston rings are a gapless top, tapered napier second and a standard oil control ring. 8.) The stock oil pan has been modified to increase its volume and incorporates a crank scraper above the stock windage tray in the pan and 4 trap doors for oil control. 9.) The block has had the casting flash and grit removed. Once the rods and pistons are received the block will be radiused for the longer rods. Therefore, will this engine produce 190-200 HP?
I don't know!! If it does great!! If it doesn't then I will be in a postion to supply empirical data and information that the sanctioning organization will need to allow additional adjustments in order to be competitive.

Once again I want to thank all the forum members for their input on this project. I know some of the members thought or believe this is an exercise in futlity but I'm determined to prove to myself and the sanctioning organization whether this is doable.

[racermr2]

Hey guys: What about my inquiry above on cam specs? Any recommendations from anybody? See post #31.

[BrianGT]

I think with that spec and someone "fitting" it all together you will get that figure. Good luck mate!

[trdee]

trdee: What type(mfg'er) oil to water heat exchanger are you using and where did you mount it. Also, what temp thermostat are you using?

PWR made my oil to water heat exchanger. it is mounted on the LHS of the engine bay in-line with the radiator hoses.. Not using a thermostat on the oil system.

I will be relocating the oil cooler to the drivers side where the original oil cooler was installed on AW11s.

[xero]

Also, any recommendations on using asymmetrical cams, e.g a longer duration exhaust over an intake or should they both be the same. Where is the sweet spot for torque vs. horsepower on your recommendation(s) e.g. max torque @ this RPM and max HP @ this RPM. Lastly, any recommendations on cam center line e.g. 96, 99, 102, 105 degrees? There has been a lot of discussion here in the USA as which centerline gives the best torque and HP. I'd like the recommendations of those who may or have done it. Thx. Racermr2

i run 304in 296ex duration (advertised duration) and from memory (it going to be vague as im at work after a weekend at the F1) the larger intake helps with intake combustion and can minimise overlap with the smaller exhaust cam.

you will NEED adjustable gears to get the best out of your cams and i would suggest something like a 29x/288 combo with a minimum of 8.5mm lift or bigger. this will get you spinning to 9000rpm easy but unless you get a decent amount of lift in there then you might as well go a lower duration cam and only turn it say 8000rpm.

one other thing you havent mention is your gear ratios, what are you doing for those items (gearbag and diff ratio)

[racermr2]

PWR made my oil to water heat exchanger. it is mounted on the LHS of the engine bay in-line with the radiator hoses.. Not using a thermostat on the oil system.

I will be relocating the oil cooler to the drivers side where the original oil cooler was installed on AW11s.

As I understand your AW11 in Australia is a right hand drive vehicle. If your engine is mounted the same as a USDM, are you mounting the cooler in the hot water side? On my vehicle the original oil cooler was in the hot water side and other than initial warm up from cold was pretty inefficient for oil cooling.
Am I missing something. Please elaborate further if you would be so kind.

[maj]

The Australian (and JDM) AW11's engine bay is 100% identical to USDM counterparts. The LHS water lines are cold side and RHS are hot side, same as yours.

trdee's oil cooler is currently on the cold side of the engine bay (LHS), where his car originally had a transmission cooler since it used to be an automatic in a previous life. Due to lack of thermostat the oil cooler is actually not getting up to temperature in a reasonable amount of time, i.e. The oil cooler is working too well since there is a constant flow of oil to the cooler with no thermostat.

As I understand it, he intends to move it to the RHS (I didn't realise this was possible with his turbo manifold), as well as possibly install a thermostat. He would be best to explain his reasoning behind this. I have only been made known of his oil temp issues with his current setup, by reading his build thread.
Possibly as once the thermostat opens, the oil cooler will cool it too quickly and will constantly be opening/closing the thermostat? Moving to hot side would stabilise this.

[oldeskewltoy]

Therefore, will this engine produce 190-200 HP?

From what you say, it sounds like you are in the ball park for sure... not sure about the change in valves... but a well built standard valve engine should peak @ about 190-210hp.

Cams and compression.... You've dropped plenty of coin on this engine... it would be wise to keep it as long as you can. Keeping rpm under 10k will make your engine last... so based on that, I'd be playing with a 245-255 duration (measured @ .050" - these should twist to about 9000-9500) and lift the valves to around 10mm... maybe 10.25. Compression... use DCR calculator, and planned fuels to come up with a static CR. Keeping the springs happy.. will keep the engine together. I'd get a few sets of springs... and check them for fatigue after every race, swap in replacements as needed.

[racermr2]

Oldeskewltoy: Thanks-a-million. Just one more question for you and other forum members, you mentioned that it was possible to get 10mm of lift using Toda single springs? I contacted Toda in Calif. and they informed me that anything over 9mm requires their double springs and shim under buckets. I have a couple of the single spring Toda sets brand new and would like to use them but not if they won't do the job. How would you get 10mm of lift with a single spring or did I miss interpret the information? I will be using the Toyota Yaris 1SZ lifter bucket versus the old style pallet shim on top. Thx. racermr2

[oldeskewltoy]

Oldeskewltoy: Thanks-a-million. Just one more question for you and other forum members, you mentioned that it was possible to get 10mm of lift using Toda single springs? I contacted Toda in Calif. and they informed me that anything over 9mm requires their double springs and shim under buckets. I have a couple of the single spring Toda sets brand new and would like to use them but not if they won't do the job. How would you get 10mm of lift with a single spring or did I miss interpret the information? I will be using the Toyota Yaris 1SZ lifter bucket versus the old style pallet shim on top. Thx. racermr2

Hmmmmmmm........ send this on to Toda...



ask them if the specs of their single springs changed???

and if they have... why did they not tell anyone????

[racermr2]

Oldeskewltoy: I am eternally in to your debt for the information. I will contact Misano, the Toda U.S. Distributor on Monday

[Sam_Q]

doesn't sound right, aftermarket springs only being able to handle 1mm more lift? if so that would be seriously piss-weak