2-TG N/A Cam Options - Real world results wanted

[TheToyman75]

Its been a long while since I looked over cam specs for an N/A 2-TG and I could use a refresher with some real world results to support any figures. In saying that the Dyno number is not really a concern, what I want to know is where in the RPM range does the power start to come on strong.

The unicorn is getting a new N/A 1855cc 2T-G build. Nothing over the top.

10.2:1 compression - (Will lift compression due to larger cam selection)
87mm bore,
3T-GTE crank
88222 Head.

The stock 88222 cams are listed by Toyota as follows:

88222 Cam Shaft:
Lobe Height In 46.37 ~ 46.47
Lobe Height Ex 46.37 ~ 46.47
Cam Lift: In 10.27
Cam Lift: Ex 10.27

88222 Cam Duration: (TBC)
Intake Opens 16 BTDC Closes 60 ABDC = 256 Degrees Duration.
Exhaust Opens 60 BBDC Closes 16 ATDC = 256 Degrees Duration .

The compression of the new build is not that much higher than stock and capacity is increased but is still only 1855cc

I want a cam with a good strong midrange, that isn't to deed in the lower RPM and doesn't run out to soon (yeah I know I'm asking a lot) I don't want a doey nothing before 4500rpm race spec package

If I can believe what my previous engine builder said the Pornstars first cam was a Camtech 401A grind and I really enjoyed it. It was a nice balance of what I wanted. Research however has me question thats what it was because the low RPM drive ability was really good. Has anyone else got this cam in their 2T-G ?

So can options being considered are: (Durations listed below are advertised duration)

Camtech 420A - 289 Duration -238 @.050 - 429 thou lift (10.9mm) - 108 LSA - RRPM RANGE 3000-7000
Camtech 401A - 293 Duration - 372 thou lift (9.4mm) - Seriously, why is there so little lift on this cam ?
Camtech 400A - 295 Duration - 248 @.050 - 426 thou lift (10.8mm) - 106 LSA - RPM RANGE 3500-7500
Waggot Cams - 292 Duration - 11.7mm lift (460 thou) - Grind to be confirmed

Notes to self - Target Cam grind specs
Duration around 242 @ 050 - Lift 11mm or thereabouts - lower than standard LSA: IN LSA 101 - EX LSA 103


Links of interest:
Camtech Cams - CAMTECH CAMS - Toyota* 4Cyl* 2TG, 3TG & 18RG* Twin Cam Camshafts & Components
Kameari Cams - Kameari - Auto Mechanical Engineering
thou to mm calculator - Convert thou to mm - Conversion of Measurement Units

[J-M kujala]

-3t crank
- 87mm wisecos
-DIY cleaned 260 head, not ported. Just some small work.
-40mm SK sidedrafts with 36 venturi.
- Martelius exhaust 4-2-1 with 2" pipe.
-stock intake was ported
-all other stock one.

Camshafts was custom grinded "advertised" 270 duration ones with 10+ lift. engine work just like stock one. ~160 engine hp in dyno 6000+ Rpm , torgue 200+ Nm. ~ 4000. Cams are Not far from hks/trd 272.

That was ~ 10 years a go.

Bigger cams start to eat bottom end. And needed porting job, and in my case, bigger sidedrafts.
SO With bigger cams without good intakeside / headwork. 280+ (advertised) cams just eat from bottomline and do not give much more hp.

[Celica RA45]

rod you will need to tell me what the cams are at 50 thou duration ,not at advertised
might have a per hekland cam shaft that was used in the group a rally over in england made more power and torqueover std cams

ps most of camtechs profiles were from waggots any way

[TheToyman75]

Glen,

Happy to consoder thecams you hav ethere if you can shoot me the specs ? Cleaning up in the garage I found a set of these last night:
Wade 773A regrinds. 288adv, 246 at 50thou, 405thou lift, 110 deg phase angle.



Its only the lack of lift that has me has me thinking I should persist with something a little bigger. the 288 duration would be fine and give me that bit more bottom end. I have to admit, I really hate choosing cam profiles.

[Celica RA45]

the per eckland cams use the std lift just more duration
will find out the specs this week for you
also that wade cam would be good for the 1800 cc motor .abit cammy if it were 1600 thou

[71TA22]

My favourite cam spec to date is an L14 grind developed by Kent for the Lotus Cortina and Twin Cam Escort.

282 adv duration (232 at .050"), 108 lobe seperation, .408" (10.4mm) lift.

With weber 45 DCOE's snd 34mm chokes power comes in at 2,500rpm smoothly and still going at 7,500rpm.

Dont get too hung up on cam lift with relatively standard motors as 2TG's have very large diameter valves for their capacity and flow well.

You will have to try various grinds as everyone (and engine) is different.

By the way 88222 cams lift is 10mm (10.27 is max with no clearance at the lifter).

[TheToyman75]

Thanks Mike. The set of Wade cams I have hear is actually starting to look ok but the 110 LSA is a lot more than I want it to be. I was hoping to try a smaller LSA with this build

[71TA22]

Remember smaller LSA is going to narrow power band and make idle poorer. You will probably have a bit more torque and at lower rpm but would need a dyno to see a difference.

Get a set of vernier cam gears and have a bit of a play with a few different sets of cams till you find what you like.

[Celica RA45]

rod use the wade cam and set up exhaust as per std cam is set with the notch up and from memory the slot,thickness is what i use to advance for the inlet and it worked well also you are now 1800 cc so will idle very well

[BrianGT]

rod use the wade cam and set up exhaust as per std cam is set with the notch up and from memory the slot,thickness is what i use to advance for the inlet and it worked well also you are now 1800 cc so will idle very well

Hi...I'm very interested in this post!

My friend won the 1985 British championships in Group A for Toyota with a 2TG and group A cams.....he worked with Per Eklund who asked Toyota to set his car up the same as my friends after many hours of testing.

I believe they used the same cams and I have a set of these actual cams in my 1940cc 3TG with 45 Dellorto's, 36 chokes.

I haven't dyno'd the car yet but they do give more power and more torque than std cams and the power band is awesome. Pulls really hard from 2500 to 7000 (my max as I want it to last and I drive it daily)

If I am correct you set the exhaust cam as std but had the inlet cam "the width of the notch" advanced?

Std timing is around 105 degrees....I'm guessing that would move it to around 109 degrees?

I don't have a vernier pulley so that "measurement" means something to me........

[71TA22]

Brian,

Sounds right on the advance intake cam by the width of the timing slot. TOSCO (TRD) suggested the same for their 304/288 cam combination. Your LSA actually gets smaller advancing one cam.

[BrianGT]

Brian,

Sounds right on the advance intake cam by the width of the timing slot. TOSCO (TRD) suggested the same for their 304/288 cam combination. Your LSA actually gets smaller advancing one cam.

Mike,
Thank you for that!

I've spoken to John and the cams I have are the same as Eklunds as both engines were built by the same guy, Jim Whitehouse before he sold up, so I will try to advance the inlet cam....perhaps halfway between a full slot to start with and see where I end up!

Rod.....sorry if I have hijacked the thread a bit but threads about N/A 2T/3T's and cams are like gold dust to me!!
I am loving my engine and know there is more to come....all this is helping me! Thanks!

[TheToyman75]

Hi Brian, not Hijacked at all maye. Its all good information and sold 2/3TG cam chat is hard to come by.

You info on your cars power band is great to hear. I am looking forward to finding out what the Eklund cam specs are.

[BrianGT]

Hi Brian, not Hijacked at all maye. Its all good information and sold 2/3TG cam chat is hard to come by.

You info on your cars power band is great to hear. I am looking forward to finding out what the Eklund cam specs are.

Thanks Rod........John told me the lift was 420 which I believe is std? They could alter the duration and timing etc. but were not allowed to modify the lift under Group A rules.
I will try to find out the duration......

They have a wonderful powerband.......the same cams in 600 were a bit peaky......not like a switch coming on but a very strong push at 4500......when I increased the volume they lost that peak and just pull hard all the way through.

I think in an 1800 they would be perfect and still have a sense of push......it's that that I want back in my 1940 and hence the desire to advance the inlet cam.

I'll let you all know how I get on! Cheers!

[BrianGT]

Thank you guys for this thread! It has tied up a lot of loose ends!

RA45......would love to know the specs of these cams.....mine are the Eklund (Jim Whitehouse) cams for certain.

Right.......I just had to do it!

I dropped lucky in that when I advanced the inlet cam round to the edge of the slot and removed the pin there was another hole almost aligning and when I did line it up and re-tightened the chain to remove the slack it was in exactly the right spot!

I turned it over a few times by hand just to make sure it had advanced....all was good!

I knew immediately it had made a difference....tickover was smoother and right from first gear I knew the engine was crisper.

It pulls hard all the way through the rev range.....no hesitation at 4,500 just a strong hard pull all the way up to 6,500 .....it was still pulling hard and would have gone on well above 7k but by then I was really moving in 4th gear and the roads aren't good here with snow lying!
There's no cough or splutter .....just a huge amount of torque which in the real world translates to a quick car. My carbs are really well set up though....
I can tell power has gone up a little......maybe not much but it's just so much crisper.

I know the Eklund cams should be timed at 109 degrees......std with the Toyota tool is 105....and not having a dial guage or a vernier pulley I had set them as std.

The advancing "by a notch" is spot on!! I do have common sense and some degree of mechanical knowledge so by knowing my piston clearance etc. I felt happy enough to do it and I'm so glad I did.....it's been the icing on the cake!

Many thanks to you all!!