KE70/ 4k-c ignition problems

[ollie83]

Hi All.
So recently my ke70 has been having some issues with what I assume is ignition (could also be fuel, but Im quite sure that its fine). The problem initially was very intermittent, and did not happen very often, and slowly got progressively worse with time.
Basically the car used to have a slight hesitation while driving, but would only be a for a split second, so thought nothing of it. I then noticed that the fuel pump was leaking from the bottom, so replaced that, and assumed that it would fix this problem, thinking the diaphram was leaking so much that it was starved for fuel.
Then on the begining of a trip from brisbane back to sydney, it hesitated slightly again, and then started to go really downhill after that. The car would loose power completely for a few seconds, and would decelerate massively. It was like your driving at 100km/h in 2nd gear, and taking your foot of the accelerator suddenly. When it did this, I would just jam my foot down harder, or put the clutch in and give the accel a few kicks, and it would eventually jump back to normal after backfiring. It would do it every 100kms or something at first, then by the time I got to Newcastle it was getting so bad that if I put the clutch in, the engine would stall, so I'd just roll along while trying to turn it over, which it did after a few seconds, and off I went. It then got to the point where it wouldn't start without trying to turn it over 3 or 4 times (had to pull over to get it going).
I eventually made it back to sydney, and drove it around for a few weeks, and every so often it would do the same thing, and got to the point where the car would idle, but if you let the clutch out to drive, it would stall. I then went back to Melbourne (car is in Sydney at my folks house), and it wasnt started for a few weeks. When I got back to fire her up, it would not start at all.
So I replaced the coil, and the distributor cap. No better or worse. It does had a Fireball electronic ignition module, which I have no idea about, but is obviously relevant in diagnosing the problems Im having. Help!!!

[scottreichstein]

maby carby related?

[oldcorollas]

sounds like crap floating aroudn in the carby, blocking up the main jets..
or could be float needle related...
could be the ignition..

but being able to idle, but no power, sounds like when I had crap stuck in the primary main jet
when i had float needle stuck open it would die, but not be able to start (cos fuel was pissing in).

next time it does it (if you are not gonna check carby anyway), let it idle, take off air cleaner and look down carb throat.. work the throttle a little and see if you can see fuel being sucked into the main venturi thing... if not, and it dies in the arse.. then main jet blocked

[ollie83]

You may be right, I did initially think dirty fuel. I'l have a look at the jets, and give them a cleanout. I just don't think that a blocked jet would get progressively worse like it has though. Its either blocked or its not etc. And what I forgot to mention in my first post, is that there is very weak to no spark when I pulled a spark plug out and earthed it on the block while turning it over. Infact, I only ever saw the tiniest jump of spark at the split second when the engine stopped getting cranked.
Its basically showing perfect ignition coil failure symptoms, but there is now a new coil, so it doesnt make sense. I really want someone who is familiar with the Fireball electric ignition system to tell me that it is that unit that is failing.... this would make it so much easier, but I can't find any info on what the symptoms of these failing is.... and I don't know how it works either so can't make sense of it.

[oldcorollas]

check your block to chassis earth leads?

are your spark plug leads toast?

checked gap on the points?

[4th surf]

Now you have done something silly and changed the oil and filter haven't you?

Why? Coz leaking mechanical fuel pump aside from the obvious fuel leak tends to fill the sump up with petrol, increase in engine speed increases turbulence in the crankcase and you end up with all this excess fuel vapor thru the engine breather system which in turn makes the thing carry on like it's having an asthma attack (choke stuck on if you will). Check the oil level or even give it (the oil) the "sniff" test as this really sounds like the symptoms you describe

[ollie83]

check your block to chassis earth leads?

are your spark plug leads toast?

checked gap on the points?

Tested the leads, and didn't find any loose earth wires. The electric ignition modules replaces the need for points in the dizzy, so can't be that either.

Now you have done something silly and changed the oil and filter haven't you?

Why? Coz leaking mechanical fuel pump aside from the obvious fuel leak tends to fill the sump up with petrol, increase in engine speed increases turbulence in the crankcase and you end up with all this excess fuel vapor thru the engine breather system which in turn makes the thing carry on like it's having an asthma attack (choke stuck on if you will). Check the oil level or even give it (the oil) the "sniff" test as this really sounds like the symptoms you describe

Interesting.... I changed the oil + filter long before any problems started to arise, but I will check just incase.

I actually found some info on failing ingnition modules, and it presents the same symptoms as a failing coil, which is what I initially thought this whole ordeal was, so I need to somehow test the ignition module. I might just unplug it and take it to an auto-elec and see if they can check it somehow, or even try to borrow one to see if it helps. Im away from homw for the next 2 weeks, so will update after I try this out. Keep any other ideas coming though, I appreciate the thoughts!

[allencr]

...I forgot to mention... ....is very weak to no spark... ...there is now a new coil, so it doesnt make sense. ...Fireball electric ignition system... .... I don't know how it works either so can't make sense of it.

Yes, spark plugs that don't spark is worth a mention.
If the coil is good, then the Fireball whatever is NFG.

[vanman]

Hi

It might be worth checking the condensor on the dizzy (metal can screwed on outside) if this is still part of the dizzy. If this fails the car will run worse and worse under load but OK at idle, and eventually fail. My AE71 had this problem and eventually did not start. An RACQ guy sqeezed the metal can of the condensor in from top to bottom and it worked again for a bit, but still had to be replaced which fully fixed it.

I also had a KE70 once hesitate a fair bit on the freeway or after long hills/loads due to a fuel line blockage (diagnosed by watching fuel filter while revving in driveway, fixed with compressed air). Ran fine at idle but line couldn't keep up enough fuel to feed it at load/revs so it was essentially stalling.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Vanman

[oldcorollas]

fireball is running off reluctor dizzy? or no dizzy at all?

you could swap for a Jaycar HEI kit they work good...

[ollie83]

this is basically how it is setup

[oldcorollas]

so it's basically just an ignitor.

you could probably change it for any of the cheap bosch ignitors that use reluctor pickup and have internal dwell. probably smaller too
I had a couple from i think AE82 corolla..

Type C here http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/...ionmodules.pdf

thread here
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tec...or-dizzys.html

post 2 here http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic...c-dizzy-wires/

you could "borrow" one form one of these cars at wreckers
FORD
FALCON XD 03.79 - 02.82
FALCON XD 03.79 - 02.82 3.3 4.1 4.9 5.8
FALCON XE 03.82 - 09.84 3.3 4.1 4.9 5.8
FALCON XF XF 09.84 - 10.87 3.3 4.1
LTD FC 06.79 - 02.82 6 4.1 97-116 250CUIN
LTD FC 06.79 - 02.82 8 5.8 140 351CUIN
LTD FD 03.82 - 09.84 6 4.1 97-116 250CUIN
LTD FD 03.82 - 09.84 8 4.9 164 302CUIN
LTD FD 03.82 - 09.84 8 5.8 140 351CUIN
MITSUBISHI
SIGMA GK 01.84 - 12.85 4 2.0 70 M432
SIGMA GK 01.84 - 12.85 4 2.6 76 M531, M532
SIGMA GK 01.84 - 12.85 4 2.6 83 M561, M562
SIGMA GN 01.85 - 12.87 4 2.0 70 M462T
SIGMA GN 01.85 - 12.87 4 2.6 83 M562T
SIGMA GN 01.86 - 12.87 4 2.6 83 M571, M572
NISSAN
BLUEBIRD 910 06.83 - 01.85 4 2.0 72 L20B
THE UTE XFN 01.88 - 12.91 6 4.1 97,5 V
TOYOTA
COROLLA AE80 04.85 - 06.89 4 1.3 50 2AC
COROLLA AE82 04.85 - 05.91 4 1.6 58 4AC
COROLLA AE92 02.89 - 06.94 4 1.6 67 4AF
COROLLA AE92 01.91 - 12.92 4 1.6 66 4AFC

more here http://users.tpg.com.au/ra35gtcelica...les%20Appl.txt