ST162 3SGE Swap (Photo Diary)

[buck naked]

Three months ago the 3SGE in my Celica died, lack of maintainence and neglected weekly oil-topping leading it to an early demise at just 230,000kms. Since then I've sourced a complete 2nd gen 3SGE out of a 1991 Japanese MR2, along with an MR2 S54 gearbox and starter motor - to simplify the SW20 -> ST162 process. Figuring it would be worth the ~$2,000 to swap in the new gear, rather than get rid of the car for practically nothing, I'm undertaking the work in my garage at home.

Being done in my spare time after work, starting with no tools, little money, and no mechanical experience; armed only with a non-descript Haynes manual and the advice from you sympathetic on-lookers, I'm sure this diary will serve as a warning to other niave, overly ambitious nerds.

Night one



So far I've managed to borrow the following: a crazy old metric socket set, a toolbox of odd spanners, some screwdrivers, a torque wrench, two jack stands and a floor jack. Purchases: a can of WD40, an $11 globe-on a-cord setup and a roll of masking tape.

Also pictured is the 2nd gen 3SGE (121kw), gearbox, ECU and some potting mix(?).

The jack wasn't able to jack the car up any more than the lowest height of the jack stands, and they couldn't fit under the sides of my car near the Haynes-preferred jacking point, so I put them on the front of the chasis near the base of the radiator. I removed the battery, intake, exhaust manifold sheild and the coolant lines (messy, and disturbingly green) before calling it a day.

[buck naked]

Day One



Crane and starter motor delivered. No new purchases.

With the aide of the borrowed crane, I lifted the car (by the engine cross member) about a meter up and set up the jack stands properly. With the bonnet off, work began disconnecting, removing and unwiring everything. ECU removed from interior and all associated wiring. I began to differentiate what things can stay connected to the engine when it comes out and what needs to be removed. I made some good moves and some bad ones (I learnt how NOT to disconnecting the air conditioning...) and I now have everything on the south and west of the engine disconnected, pretty much all of the east and just beginning on the north. I took off the wheels and took the baring nuts off the front wheels. I then went after the suspension cross member, but wasn't able to get the bolts off. With out the space to work the breaker bar, I lubed them up with WD40 and called it a day.

Work will re-commence on Monday night; my goal is to have the engine out before I go to sleep.

[matt86sx]

Hey man,

Best of luck with the conversion! Doing it yourself isn't as daunting as it first seems, and you'll learn heaps along the way. Plus there are a few of us on here who have done ST162 engine conversions (myself, warrior, AndyTTR to name a few) so we should be able to give you advice should you find you need it. Just shout!

You may already know I have recently dropped a 3rd Gen 3SGE into mine, I have a write up of it on the old forums here:

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.p...8f9b4150817aa2

Hopefully it might give you a bit of an idea of what the process will involve.

Your engine there will bolt directly into place, although you'll probably have to use the four ST162 engine/box mounts as the MR2 ones are likely to be different. Due to the fact that the engine is from an MR2, you'll find that both the alternator and power steering pump will need to be relocated (as they are positioned differently to suit the MR2's engine bay) - once you get your original engine out and compare them you will see the different positioning. Just pinch the brackets etc from your original engine and it should all bolt up no problems. You will need to get new belts for them though as the new positions will need a different length belt. The gear selector mechanisms on the gearbox are going to be different as well (again, due to the MR2's layout) - but once again when you pull the original out you will see how they need to be. You will also need a longer throttle cable (or at least lengthen the 162 one) as the position of the throttle body is quite different to the Gen 1. Also make sure you have the loom and all the sensors, VSV's etc to run the engine.

Engine removal is a case of undoing everything that is connected to the engine/gearbox and lifting the whole assembly out. I'm sure the Haynes manual describes it all, but it can be easy to miss something so take your time. There's a long list of things to undo/disconnect - electrical plugs, rad hoses (and the radiator itself), gearbox selector cables, clutch hydraulic line, power steering hoses, exhaust manifold, driveshafts, speedo cable, heater hoses, a/c hoses, N-S crossmember, engine mounts and the list goes on.

As for tools, a good socket set is a must. The largest size you will need is 30mm (for the front hub nuts). A breaker bar is good, as well as a piece of pipe to slide over it when you need the extra leverage for the really tight bolts (eg crossmember ones). I didn't need many other specialsed tools from memory, just the usual spanners, screwdrivers, pliers etc. However, when undoing the hydraulic fittings on brake/clutch/power steering lines, make sure you use the proper spanners for this! (I'm not sure what their name is, they are like ring spanners but with a slot cut in them so you can slip them over the hydraulic line.) Regular open-ended spanners WILL strip these.

Did the MR2 engine you have there come with an exhaust manifold? If so, check the size of it compared to the original 162 manifold, it may protrude further forward and foul on the radiator fan. If it does then you will need to get a front mount fan instead. The ST version of the 162 (low spec version with the 3SFE) came with a frount mount fan that will bolt directly into place. If you go this way be sure to get the a/c pipes as well since they are shaped to clear this fan while your original ones are not. (See the pics in my conversion thread.)

Lastly, check your steering rack to make sure it isn't worn - it will be SO much easier to change it while the engine is out so it might be some good insurance for you. It's not hard to change, and an exchange one should cost you around $300-$350.

Well I guess that's a big enough mouthful, I'll stop there! Hope it helps mate, and feel free to ask advice if you need it.

Cheers,
Matt

[love ke70]

However, when undoing the hydraulic fittings on brake/clutch/power steering lines, make sure you use the proper spanners for this! (I'm not sure what their name is, they are like ring spanners but with a slot cut in them so you can slip them over the hydraulic line.)
Cheers,
Matt

pipe spanners is what ive always known them as

[Pearce]

open ended spanners ? half moon spanner.. much of muchness

[love ke70]

i always thought open ended spanners were the usual spanners, then theres the ring, then theres the ones inbetween, which have a small gap, but have more surfaces that touch the pipe nuts. like the gap fits around the pipe and then u slide it onto the nut like a ring spanner. unlike an open ended spanner that simply fits the nut
meh.

[AndyTTR]

The tools I used were a 1/2" socket set with some big ass extensions, a few oversized sockets, a metric spanner set, breaker bar, pliers and a variety of large hammers / mallets. The haynes manual is your friend! Taking it apart is easy, putting it back together is the challenge - make sure you label all the plugs as you disconnect them and bundle screws together with the part they came out with.

Looks like you dont really have a lot of room to move in that garage, how are you planning to get the engine out?

Goodluck! With all the guys on here helping out you can't lose!

- Andy

[buck naked]

matt86sx, thanks for your quality post. Your 3rd gen swap was some nice work =) Seemed like everything went pretty smoothly. I'm going to use my 1st gen exhaust manifold as my 2nd gen 3S didn't come with its naitive one. I haven't planned a solution for the throttle cable yet, but I'm on top of most other parts of the MR -> FWD process.

I know my steering rack isn't in great condition, but I'm not sure the budget will allow a replacement yet. Once the engine is out I'll look further into it to see how good/bad it is.

AndyTTR, yeah space is not on my side. The car is hard against the rear wall, there is a meter between the bumper and the garage door and there is barely a half a meter either side! I planned on being meticulously organised when dismantling everything, but space constraints have led me to being a little lazy. Once the engine is out and I start taking all the hoses and lines off it, I'll begin the labeling process =)

[buck naked]

Night Two
New purchase: 150w halogen flood light from Bunnings ($8.96). By the end of night two everything connecting the engine to the car had been disconnected (barring the engine mounts). The gearbox, however, is another story. With the breaker bar over the end of my socket wrench and with the use of four hands, we were able to take off the suspension cross member. I took off the baring nuts on the left side and the control arm bolts and lifted the brake/suspension assembly away from the drive axel.




After consulting the Haynes manual, I moved onto the right side and began to do the same. The manual tells me there is a braket with two bolts connecting the drive axel to the engine block on the right side only which must be removed. The bolts were tricky to get to, and when I finally did get a good grip on them, I wasn't able to turn them. They're both stuck pretty good.



My plan is to go back to the manual and study it further tonight, but any suggestions would be more than welcome!

[AndyTTR]

Why are you taking out the crossmembers anyway? I only removed the North / South member when putting the engine back in cos the sump fouled on it. To remove the driveshafts I did the following:

1- undo the big Jesus nut in the end of the driveshafts (called this because it holds everything together and that's you'd be screaming if it came out while driving).

2 - undo the strut-to-hub (upright) bolts and let the brake / control arm assembly hang (minding the brake lines).

3 - locate the recess on the RHS inner CV, put a chisel / pry bar in it and give it a sharp knock with a hammer. The CV should pop out of the diff. (make sure you've drained the g.box before doing this).

4 - undo the two bolts holding the LHS axle carrier to the block and use a pry bar to pop it off the studs that hold it in place. Remove the inner / outer shafts as an assembly. There's hardly room to swing a spanner in there, I used a breaker / T bar to loosen the bolts then undid them millimeter by millimeter using a ratchet.

Often the manual will show the 'proper' way to do things, not always the easiest way (the way everyone else does it).

If you leave the suspension crossmemer in the car you can roll the chassis in and out of the garage - this will give you more room to play with when lifting / dropping the engines.

[RobST162]

hey buck great thread.

with the driveshaft nuts I managed to conquer one of them them with a short extension, socket and breaker. The other one I had to use a ring, and it was tough! Perhaps see if you can fit a pole over the end of your 14mm socket, depending how high your car is off the ground of course.

And don't forget to tap the driveshaft away from the block before you try and pull it out of the gear box. There's two little tabs that lock into the back of that bracket with the two bolts.

Hope that's some help.

And dude, I didn't see an actual loom there... does that ECU have the same plugs? And you are going to have to find a few aftermarket sensors/get some wiring done?

Rob

[AndyTTR]

Soz, I think I mixed up my lefts and rights in the previous post.

How big is the bolt on the end of the driveshaft anyway? Is it 30 or 32mm? I need to buy another socket.

[RobST162]

yeah it's 30mm mate, and get as deep a one as possible

[urantia]

removing the CV's can be a frustrating pain the ass at times.
The circlip that holds the passenger side CV can be popped out, but the driver side is held in with a big mutha circlip, it's actually real easy to remove when you relize after 30 mins that its not held in place like the passenger side. pair of vice grips makes it easy

(Putting the driver side CV back in is easy, putting the passenger side one in seems to be tricky affair. It usually does not just pop back in place. This has been bugging me for awhile now as everytime it's been trouble to get back in, there must of an easier way, or a proper way and i believe i found it, abit of thick grease to hold the circlip in the middle of the spline on the CV, if it slids down to the bottom from gravity it will be too much to clear the spine teeth in the gearbox.

Anyway i'm getting pretty good with swapping these celica 3sge engines, i did a complete swap from one celica to the other in a day and a half, i even managed to pull the complete engine/gearbox thru the top of the car which i did not think was possible.

So your going well buck.

[RobST162]

yeah for the PS site driveshaft the clip is a big pain.

I use a pinch bar and a mallet, line it up in the hole and give a solid whack, or I kick the pinch bar while it's resting agains the clip retainer inside the diff if I can't get a right angle with the mallet.

Just the opposite of removing them really.