Aftermarket Pedal Boxes: Wilwood Tilton Street Use

[George]

TTV8RA23 I've personally driven said fiat124 (well local adaptation of it) rebuilt fully stock , and with anything more than 1 driver+1 passenger it's a bit frightening to drive.

[thechuckster]

I used to own a GC Galant and it had an un-boosted M/C. Recollections are that the brakes were either under-performing or locking up - can highly not recommend tho being a uni student at the time, it had its moments of hilarity. (note: this level of factory-designed shitfulness may not be representative of a modern unboosted pedal box).

[oldcorollas]

Cuzzo, the KE15's had unboosted single circuit and 200mm discs on the front.. with the non-self-adjusting rear drums, most braking is done by the front
they don't stop well, but they eventually stop, and pedal is very firm.

with proper sized discs, some nice high friction bitey pads, and maybe a bit longer pedal for better leverage, i don't think it would be a problem for a KE30.

for a 1500kg car? it wouls be a totally different story (but just need much bigger discs).

if you want, you can pretty much calculate what the required pedal force will be... (yes with big error, but ballpark)

disc diameter (average of pad contact)
force on pads x friction coefficient
fluid pressure required for piston force
MC force required for fluid pressure
foot force required for Mc force, via pedal leverage.

legal? need engineering and since they are not ADR approved, could be grey area. if they are not "in cabin adjustable" (ie, remove bias adjusting cable for rego/street), and the gingerbeer is happy to sign them off, it should be doable.
there is nothing i've seen in the COP or NCOP to exclude aftermarket brake pedla assemblies, but need to take into account mounting structure (lots of force and twisting force) and possibly the issue of having fluids in the cabin (non-flammable, and a rooted MC leaks in cabin anyway ).

could remote mount the reservoirs in the engine bay with some simple hardware? easier to fill.

Tilton over willwood for quality?

[TTV8RA23]

Unboosted factory cars are one thing. I suppose i should have made it clear that i was talking about aftermarket pedal box setups like the title of the thread indicates. Yes i agree factory rotors etc would not be a good idea. The RA23 im doing will probably end up weighing between 1150kgs and 1250kgs. It has 325mm rotors and big 4 pot calipers on the front and 305mm rotors and single pots on the back. I dont know for sure but i think it'll be ok. I will be talking to an expert about it next week and find out and fill everybody in.

A shit load of race cars run unboosted and seem to still stop alright. I can appreciate that the pedal feel will be firmer but surely not something that would be too hard to get used too. Well im over 6' and over 100kgs so i should be right but smaller lighter guys(or just soft bastards) may find pushing a bit harder on the pedal too much

[Billzilla]

A shit load of race cars run unboosted and seem to still stop alright. I can appreciate that the pedal feel will be firmer but surely not something that would be too hard to get used too. Well im over 6' and over 100kgs so i should be right but smaller lighter guys(or just soft bastards) may find pushing a bit harder on the pedal too much

The pedalbox and master cylinders on my racer. (before the crash, of course)



Note that to make it all nice & stiff I've welded a small bar under the end of the master cylinders, to stop the flex that you unavoidably get. The pedal hardly moves in the car, but it stops so well it feels like your eyes are going to pop out.



During the last major rebuild. It looks pretty stiff, but it needed the extra little bar in the front to stop the vertical wall on the pedalbox from flexing around - You could see it bend when I stomped on the pedal hard in the pits.

I personally would recommend a stiffer pedal that doesn't move much as it gives you better control over the braking power and a bit more confidence as well.

[smiley_666]

if its a pre '76 car you are a lot free-er in what you can do with brakes. Almost all of the faster done up ford escorts have un-boosted pedal boxes and they pretty much shit all over the dodgy boosted standard brakes (obviously it gets better again with bigger discs and calipers)
effort is not all that much more compared to a boosted car (completely different MC sizes & linkages usually)

[TTV8RA23]

Thanks smiley this is what i have been told by our local race car builder who i dont quite trust 100% so was gonna check with one that i do.
Simon

[TTV8RA23]

Checked with reliable Race car Engineer and he informs me that yes the pedal load is increased somewhat and not suitable for small people on street use. But pedal feel and actual braking is apparently improved greatly as you can size master cylinders perfectly for pot amount and size and adjust bias perfectly for weight lay out in the car. I will be getting one of these once im back into the big project and setting up some sort of reverse mount haging pedal box.
Simon

[Cuzzo]

Thanks for the info simon,

Im still yet to purchase, trying to weigh up the cons and hookers.

[TIMTAMS]

Thanks for the info simon,

Im still yet to purchase, trying to weigh up the cons and hookers.

So its been a couple of years... goggled it and ended up here. Anymore thoughts?

[Cuzzo]

Haven't done anything about it purely because the old booster will do for now.

[mattysshop]

not sure if you remember that extreme custom engineering 1JZ Gemini we did a few years ago? it had a willwood 1" bore master, with 2 remote resovoirs -

had VX SS brakes on the front, with AU falcon rear discs.. even with the 165 front runners, it pulled up all the time, it used to be driven by his wife alot, even doing the school drop off and pick ups!

if the sizing is right, like everyone says ,you probly wouldn't even notice it, other than a slightly harder pedal.