How do you raise block height efficiently?

[Radar]

How do you raise block height efficiently? Do you just get a spacer plate cut out to the same specs as the block, get longer head studs, use two head gaskets and longer pushrods ??

[J-M kujala]

to what engine ? usually needed that cylinders are not to close to each others. in turbo aplication its not as strong as thin, because heat.

i use custom 3mm Cometic HG in my 3T engine, pistons come 2mm over the block. still work with stock pushrods, also cam is grinded, so its got couple mm smaller basic diameter.



My Friend "Los Patentos" in 2TG engine, there is 3T Crank with really long rods and Custom pistons.
bought side O-Ringed steelplate between head and block, bought side got ~1mm copper gaskets. oil is coming outside of the head, they are closed from head and block. plate if about ~5mm thick, not remember.
picture at spacer

http://kuva1.kuvablogi.com/iso/img719714.jpg

and at the block with pistons

http://kuva1.kuvablogi.com/iso/img719739.jpg

have been dynoed ~500 hp

[Joshstix]

For starters you are going to want to put in full length sleeves, you don't want a seam in the bore wall.

I've seen this done with a machined plate devconned to the original block and then sleeved. Take a look at the OS Giken RB30 kits to see how a manufacturer does it.

[Radar]

Thanks lads, ideally i'd love to add about 1" to the block height (3tc). Does a water bead or something need to be cut into the spacer to help with cooling?

[allencr]

...love to add about 1"...

Why not 2, or make it an even 3?
A 1mm spacer is just some stacked gaskets. I imagine that 1in on a drag engine wouldn't need cooling like everything else would.

Is this for a 2" stroke increase or just rod length??????
Either way, waste'o time & $$$!

[thechuckster]

1" would put both rings above the current block height - instantly ruling out any kind of spacer with any kind of gaskets. Your only solution would be sleeves.

I think adding 1" bore height does not have any 'efficient' solutions, only expensive ones.

[Radar]

I wasn't sure about the process so I asked. So i'd basiclly have to get the spacer and block bored out to 89mm then sleaved back to 86mm to raise it 1" ? ( I meant efficient as in reliable sorry I should of been more clear)

[thechuckster]

i think it would be:
- spacer cut (including water jacket thru-holes)
- spacer pinned to block somehow (interference fit pins?)
- bores machined out to accommodate sleeve (i have no idea about sleeve OD)
- sleeve force-fit or pressed in (has to be snug fit as it wont be in contact with the water jacket)
- excess machined off top of sleeve (they are over-length, at least the examples I've seen)
- new top of block machined so it's all flat
- waste countless hours locating longer pushrods & rods to suit

I have seen sleeves for diesel engines that a drop in, but the block is designed to suit them (sleeve is the wet jacket) and they have an o-ring at the bottom of the sleeve and the top edge has a lip which sits into a machined recess at the top of the block (and is possibly o-ringed as well).

[thechuckster]

example of fitting metal-to-metal sleeves to restore a block - start from post #45 - has interludes of banter so it's a bit of a read:
http://www.performanceforums.com/for...=marine&page=2


edit: I just noticed you're in SA. The guy doing the work in the link above is Adelaide based. Takai knows him fairly well, as do a few other SA residents on here. He's not cheap (tho not gold plated) but you're paying very good workmanship. Is also the go-to guy for porting.

edit 2 - link fixed

[Radar]

Awesome info cheers man! Could you check the link please It doesnt seem to work.

[J-M kujala]

those mine advises was like what can do without sleeving it. only rule is 1mm gap between first piston ring to block surface.

custom low piston is not choise ?

like 25mm Comp Height piston and drive them ~7mm over the block, with wisecos maximum is usually 6-7mm. so its like same you got 18-19 mm comp height pistons, in 3T that means ~17mm longer rod than in stock !!

3sgte rods are 138mm, and maximum is ~140mm

usually custom piston (wisecos) minimmum pin height is 25mm

[Joshstix]

Thanks lads, ideally i'd love to add about 1" to the block height (3tc). Does a water bead or something need to be cut into the spacer to help with cooling?

I'd suggest just using a decent engine from the start rather than playing around with very expensive and unproven mods.

What do you want to acheive in the end?

[J-M kujala]

to 3TC, take a 4Y block, use bigger piston and higher block, but pushrod T head problem is that you cant port head enough to get full RPM range under use. there is no space, with TG there can be take out a lot of better maximum flow with better flow speed. without heavily welding job to the head.

4Y block is higher, because 86mm stroke, ~135mm rods, pin height ~34mm. when you compare these to 3TC: +4mm at stroke, + 12mm from Rods. so think its about ~16mm higher, where is needed that long rods !!

in 3TC is possible to use up to ~140mm rods. in 4Y block with 4Y 86 mm stroke ~152mm rods, and with 3TC or 3Y crank 156mm. maybe yes if gonna fit 503E head in to it and use it always like 10 000 rpm

mine 4Y cranked 3TC with only stock lenght rods run easily high enough rpm:s what head can flow without massive weldings. rpm limiter is 7000 rpm now, and max power was in 6300 rpm just after engine was built, soon going to go dyno again and test what km:s after drive it in means to power, also gonna test Ethanol, E85.

mine short rodded engine will like if add longer rods, but only couple hp or rpm range go a little higher, piston life is easyer. but thats it.

[NME308]

Hi there,
Attempting to reset the record?

This one's on a stock crank, stock block, and stock - er - well nothing else I guess but these guys are yet to explore raising the block height anyhow!

742 rear wheel HP 3tc - click to view vid!

Better make it an extra 2 inches deck height eh???



Cheers,
Jason

[J-M kujala]

Hi there,
Attempting to reset the record?

This one's on a stock crank, stock block, and stock - er - well nothing else I guess but these guys are yet to explore raising the block height anyhow!

742 rear wheel HP 3tc - click to view vid!

Better make it an extra 2 inches deck height eh???



Cheers,
Jason

thats not the point, if someone get more with another setup.... Turbo setups like shorter rods than N/A , just the piston speed at the turning points....

same when some guys telling that with this intake 500++ hp, ok but maybe the airflow between cylinders are not so good, and its not flowing so well, there can be better choise, maybe a lot, also small difference between cams mean a lot to all other setup. that long when someone think this is enough for this HP, and do not think setup, what is wanted and do not design it work together properly, the engine will not work just good as it can work.

N/A 3TC rods are just to short !! longer is better, 4-15mm longer is OK not longer, to turboapplications with high boost, 0-10mm longer. it depends at rpm range and boost levels.

Finnish TA12 Carina with 2T Crank and 127mm long rods, there is also power, and with standard pump gas.... 1700cc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLc93nUkkn8

Just my 2 cents.