The Beams is in my Celica, but I can't get it to start

[one]

Hi all,

I've just finished installing a 3SGE Beams in my ST204 Celica, but I can't get the bugger to fire.

The engine came from an ST202 Celica (same shape) so I've swapped over the interior looms as well, but still no go.

Basically the engine will turn over, but just won't fire. Initially we thought the fuel pump was the issue, but I've tried running power directly to the pump (which is now working) but still no fire.

Any ideas?

[CHB]

got sparks?

[.T.]

hardly played with this model of 3sge, but things to check:
as chb said - spark
stupid clutch pedal isolator starter thingy (easily bypassed)
check all your connectors - esp ecu
earthing points!!!
fuses - easy to blow fuses when doing this sort of conversion.

if it turns over, & you have fuel & spark, it will start

T

[StuC]

Dont these have a fuel pump ecu?

[Celica RA45]

make sure all of the earth wires are bolted down and are making good contact especially the coils and injectors

[one]

Thanks guys, I'll give these things a go later today.

Cheers

[one]

got sparks?

No spark. I think I'm doing it properly, but I've never tried on an engine with no distributor or normal leads. I've pulled the spark plug out and run an earth wire from the body to the plug, with the plug still plugged into the lead. When I turn the engine over, there is no spark. This is the right way to do it, right?

hardly played with this model of 3sge, but things to check:
as chb said - spark
stupid clutch pedal isolator starter thingy (easily bypassed)
check all your connectors - esp ecu
earthing points!!!
fuses - easy to blow fuses when doing this sort of conversion.

if it turns over, & you have fuel & spark, it will start

T

All plugs seem fine as well as the earthing points. I'm going through all of the fuses but haven't found any issues yet.

What is this clutch pedal isolator? I've checked the pedal on the donor car and can't find any switches or similar. Would this stop the engine from cranking at all, or just stop the spark?

Dont these have a fuel pump ecu?

No idea, but the engine started fine when it was still in the half cut.

make sure all of the earth wires are bolted down and are making good contact especially the coils and injectors

I've checked these and everything seems to be fine.

Any other ideas? This is driving me crazy!

[horse]

how did you wire up the ecu? When i wired up my car I had the same issue as you which all came back to a single black 12v wire which provided power to the coilpacks.

get a 12v test probe and start testing your modules. you will notice that you're not getting 12v to them. trace this back and there is a 12v wire which goes straight from your IGN relay. I'll double check this all for you tonight as I wired this thing up 3 years ago.

[JP]

so you swapped ALL the looms from the cut? I'd be checking that the EFI main relay is being triggered by the ECU, if not, trace back looking for blown fuses etc.

Did you repin any of the looms that run to the rear of the car?

[thechuckster]

do you have the check engine light and also the diagnostic port (in engine bay or cabin)? If so, is it displaying any error codes when you connect Tc to E1 in the diag port?

(someone may want to chime in here if the diag port names are wrong)

edit: thanks wilbo!

[wilbo666]

do you have the check engine light and also the diagnostic port (in engine bay or cabin)? If so, is it displaying any error codes when you connect TE1 to E1 in the diag port?

(someone may want to chime in here if the diag port names are wrong)

Pretty sure it's Tc to E1

Cheers
Wilbo

[Shakotan_Aaron]

No spark. I think I'm doing it properly, but I've never tried on an engine with no distributor or normal leads. I've pulled the spark plug out and run an earth wire from the body to the plug, with the plug still plugged into the lead. When I turn the engine over, there is no spark. This is the right way to do it, right?

The coils should have constant power while the ignition is at the 'on/run' position, they are then triggered by the earth wire by the ecu for them to spark. Im finding it a learning curve with my first modern engine conversion.

So to test it you would need to remove a coil, fit a spark plug then crank it.

But as mentioned before if it has fuel, spark and cranking it will fire (assuming cam/ignition timing is correct or close).

[one]

Things are going backwards now... the engine won't even turnover. The relay on the ECU is not being triggered (it was previously) so I can only imagine I've bumped something, but I've checked every connection and fuse and I can't find any issues. I don't know if this is related, but also my headlights are no longer working (they were previously).

If it helps at all, here's a run down of what is working and what's not working:

Working
Dash lights
Tail lights
Brake lights
Indicators
Climate control (installed from the half cut)
Central locking
Power windows
Power mirrors

Not Working
No spark
Engine won't turnover (was fine yesterday)
ECU relay (was fine yesterday)
Headlights (was fine yesterday)

When I turn on the ignition I get the oil light and the ABS light (which turns off after a few seconds) but I am not getting the check engine light or the battery/charge light.

I even tried plugging the factory stereo back in (from the front cut) in case there was some sort of factory immobilisor, but that didn't help. The stereo wouldn't turn on either, although I'm not sure if it worked originally.

how did you wire up the ecu? When i wired up my car I had the same issue as you which all came back to a single black 12v wire which provided power to the coilpacks.

get a 12v test probe and start testing your modules. you will notice that you're not getting 12v to them. trace this back and there is a 12v wire which goes straight from your IGN relay. I'll double check this all for you tonight as I wired this thing up 3 years ago.

The ECU was plugged in using the loom from the front cut, I haven't changed any of the wires or plugs. I don't have a test probe, but I think I'll be investing in one shortly!

so you swapped ALL the looms from the cut? I'd be checking that the EFI main relay is being triggered by the ECU, if not, trace back looking for blown fuses etc.

Did you repin any of the looms that run to the rear of the car?

I swapped the engine loom and both interior (front only) looms. I haven't changed the looms that run through the front guards, and I haven't repinned any of the looms which run to the rear of the car.

Maybe changing the loom/s that run through the front guards would be worth a shot, as it does attach to the fuse box on the passenger side.

do you have the check engine light and also the diagnostic port (in engine bay or cabin)? If so, is it displaying any error codes when you connect TE1 to E1 in the diag port?

(someone may want to chime in here if the diag port names are wrong)

No check engine light. There is a diagnostic port in the engine bay, but I've never played around with it before. Might be time to start?

[one]

The coils should have constant power while the ignition is at the 'on/run' position, they are then triggered by the earth wire by the ecu for them to spark. Im finding it a learning curve with my first modern engine conversion.

So to test it you would need to remove a coil, fit a spark plug then crank it.

But as mentioned before if it has fuel, spark and cranking it will fire (assuming cam/ignition timing is correct or close).

Okay thanks, well sounds like I was doing it right then. I need to get a test light so I can check whether or not power is getting to the coils.

[thechuckster]

No check engine light. There is a diagnostic port in the engine bay, but I've never played around with it before. Might be time to start?

just find a small 12V lamp (e.g. one of the backlights for a dash) and connect it across Tc and E1 - it should flash codes (or if flashing steady, is saying no errors).

Later on, you should work out why the check engine light in the dash is not coming on (with IGN on and engine not running).