Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

  1. #31
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota oldcorollas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    12,494

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    maybe they should???

    all flow charts i've seen indicate blacktop is better.. but that means little..
    "I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
    "There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!

  2. #32
    Building Corollas Chief Engine Builder Cuzzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Hows your 4a comin along?
    KE30 4agte - Bullet - Rick Rolled
    UZX83 1UZ W58- Cruiser - Tow Car - Fun Car
    Quote Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
    You had an oil and plastics engine bay fire, with flames that reached at least to the roof - of course shit got hot, it wasn't burning jiffy firelighters back there.

  3. #33
    KE20 4AGTE 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Hi Cuzzo
    I have been buying lots of parts but I have gone with a 7A engine Black top head and these bits
    Crower I beam rods (not cheap Brian crower stuff)
    Arias 20V 8.5:1 pistons
    Full ARP bolt set incl balancer & flywheel bolts
    Pro Gram billet main caps
    ACL bearings
    1mm oversize valves
    Springs Titanium retainers
    Elec water pump
    Toda cam gears

    But i have been spending else where like my new Budnik M5 Wheels (19x10 & 18x7) my new 355mm rotors with custom hats Moser 31 spline axels for my BW78 among other bits

    I still have to get my Kelford cams
    Oil pump
    Twin plate from Bazda and some other bits along with finding a builder that I feel comfortable with

    Hows your KE30 going?

  4. #34
    KE20 4AGTE 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Cuzzo
    BTW I notice you said to keep the stock throttles but I can't find 1000-1200cc injectors that are side feed and I'm not sure if the stock fuel rail will flow enough and looking at where the throttle linkage is I dont think i will fit a top feed rail and injectors in there do you have any ideas that might help me??

  5. #35
    Spirited Backyard Mechanic Casey-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    492

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Lol what?


    2jz's run a side feed man, shit should be easy to find. Have you tired injector dynamics or tweakit?

  6. #36
    Building Corollas Chief Engine Builder Cuzzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Well i think with the latest parts list you've posted, you have proven me wrong on my previous posts.

    That is some serious gear that you have purchased!

    If your going for the power suggested before i think go custom manifold and fuel rail. That way you can run whatever injectors you want.

    As for my rolla. Im not going to rush it now and just do it bit by bit. Still on the body work. Painful.
    KE30 4agte - Bullet - Rick Rolled
    UZX83 1UZ W58- Cruiser - Tow Car - Fun Car
    Quote Originally Posted by -GT- View Post
    You had an oil and plastics engine bay fire, with flames that reached at least to the roof - of course shit got hot, it wasn't burning jiffy firelighters back there.

  7. #37
    Toymods Board Member Backyard Mechanic
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    250

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Silvertop oil pump means you can ditch the hydraulic timing belt tensioner.... though, being 7a i'm now not sure how this would be relevant...

    As for custom rails, a guy by the name of action dan has allot of experience with 20v heads etc...

  8. #38
    Forum Sponsor Domestic Engineer Bazda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    To clear things up a little.

    I have flow sheets for both a 16v small port stock form and 20v blacktop stock form. I have sighted flow sheets of a stock 20v silvertop as well which is similar to a 16v small port.
    The small port flowed 180cfm on the intake and 116cfm on the exhaust
    Blacktop flows 210cfm on the intake and 140cfm on the exhaust.
    This small port was then ported extensively with 1mm OS valves and cams and made 240cfm on the intake and 170cfm on the exhaust.

    I started work on the 20v blacktop head and gained 30% more flow on the exhaust by putting 1mm OS valves with no porting and stock cams! imagine what happens when I introduce porting and cams. I would expect a similar gain on the intake as well. But I pulled that head out of its build as was going to cost over $5k just for the head work. Since I dont drag race now I didnt see the point as I only need 250-280kw atw for circuit use and its more than enough for what I do.

    This small port head was put onto a stock 4agze bottom end 9.0:1 compression and made 410kw atw!!! on 26psi boost using E30 fuel.
    Its def possible to build these engines to big power with the alcohol based fuels.

    We have a good base of corollas in NZ running VERY similar setups and tuned by the same person on the same dyno.
    Typically stock 4agzes with small port heads get power from 190kw atw - 230kw atw on 18-24psi 98 pump gas
    Stick a 20v blacktop head on there and easily the power goes up to 240-270kw atw on the same boost levels. So many are just starting with blacktop heads as they dont have to do any work to them to get good power.

    The way the silvertop head is, its not good even when ported. its okay you can still get some good power, but the results are not as good as porting a 16v small port head or a blacktop head (which no one has really done!!). I'm waiting for the right customer who wants a blacktop head ported!! as I know we can make around the 450kw mark with the right build - anyone interested??

    One day I will finish the blacktop head I started, but mortgage gets the best of me so i have to watch what I spend on the car these days :S.

    Also 7a bottom ends are great. What you read on the net from AGES ago mis-leads alot of people to think the cranks are weak.

    Also when getting this sort of power over 350kw atw and the boost levels the stock size ARP head studs don't cut it. You will need to upgrade to 11mm studs which you can torque down to 70ft lbs.
    1988 Toyota Levin GTZ 10.88 @ 209.57 340kw
    Now 9AGTE 410kw atw
    www.mrpltd.co.nz - Manon Racing Products
    Turbonetics|Custom Coilovers|4/6 Piston custom brake kits|Twin/Triple custom clutch setups|+ MORE
    www.facebook.com/mrpltd - LIKE
    Check out the Toymods Sponsors section for Deals

  9. #39
    Incompetent Automotive Encyclopaedia
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    978

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    ...and yet people are acting like the 260-280kw I was asking about is ridiculous.

    I have some experience with a 400hp+ atw 4A corolla from a number of years ago, was still 1.6lt too and a somewhat 'agricultural' setup. If you can make 1100hp from an all-but-standard 2jz 3.0lt then a bombed 4AGE should be able to go close to half that without even trying.
    Must.... avoid.... urge... to... upgrade... parts I haven't.... used.... yet.....

  10. #40
    Toymods Events Secretary Too Much Toyota trdee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    10,170

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    the power you are wanting to make isnt ridiculous shifty, the limitation on boost is the ridiculous part...

    interesting piece on the heads there baz, but you didnt mention the bigport head once..... have you had any experience with the bigports?
    1988 AW11 9A-GTE - project #1 | 1984 MA61 1JZ-GTE - project #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Kelway View Post
    .....and the within first laps everything that made the AW11 great hit Rex as if the 'Gods of driving fun' had all Jizzed on his face.....
    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    Mono blocs mate....as close to yours as a Ferrari is to a Fiesta

  11. #41
    Forum Sponsor Domestic Engineer Bazda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    I did't mention it cos I haven't tested it. As I would never go down the route of 16v any way
    1988 Toyota Levin GTZ 10.88 @ 209.57 340kw
    Now 9AGTE 410kw atw
    www.mrpltd.co.nz - Manon Racing Products
    Turbonetics|Custom Coilovers|4/6 Piston custom brake kits|Twin/Triple custom clutch setups|+ MORE
    www.facebook.com/mrpltd - LIKE
    Check out the Toymods Sponsors section for Deals

  12. #42
    Spirited Backyard Mechanic Casey-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    492

    Default Re: 4AGE 20 Valve Silver top V Black top

    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    the power you are wanting to make isnt ridiculous shifty, the limitation on boost is the ridiculous part...

    interesting piece on the heads there baz, but you didnt mention the bigport head once..... have you had any experience with the bigports?
    QFT..


    Also barry is there a reason you haven't mentioned the bigport head..? (edit nvmind was beaten)

Similar Threads

  1. valve sizes for supercharged engines - 4age
    By Dangerous Beans in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-09-2010, 12:17 AM
  2. Celica 2T / 2-TG / 2-TGEU / and 3T series engine specs *sticky*
    By toyboyracer in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 14-07-2010, 09:11 PM
  3. 4age 20v - When are heavy duty valve springs required?
    By shelldrake in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 28-09-2007, 10:16 PM
  4. difference between Black and Silver top.
    By Duke in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-12-2006, 04:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •