Westfield repower...hot 16v..or 20V ST or 20V BT

[Tiger_DFT]

Hi all,

Just bought my very first 4age...it's a 88kw (3 rib crankcase) with a Westfield Clubman wrapped around it. I have bought this car primarily for the local W.A. Speed Series and Track day fun. I have run these events previously in my Sunbeam Tiger with a Windsor 302.

I thought that getting a Westfield was a step in the right direction due to nice and light (565kg), reasonable suspension and brakes and easy to work on.....but what work should I do? :confused

My initial plan was to put a hi comp/cammed 16v in it....then that started to lose appeal when I discovered that I need to spend about $3k on engine work + $1200 for ECU and would get around 150hp..170hp.

Then I thought of all the Westfields with 20V Silvertops in them probably have a better answer with around the same power and much less highly strung.

And, then I thought well, the 20V BT is probably even better ...but maybe not due to lighter rods (which is good and MAYBE bad).

So can I please indulge on the obvious experts on this forum...

If you lived in Perth
Had a Westfield with a good std but very healthy 4AGE 16V 88kw
Would you
a. Hot up the existing motor (plus an ECU)
b. Buy and hot up a later model 4age 16v(plus an ECU)
c. Buy and cam and head shave a 20V Silvertop (plus an ECU)
d. Be happy with a Blacktop (and run std BT ECU)

Finally, what is the cheapest worthwhile ECU that can meet my fuel/ignition needs.

All within the constraints of around a $4000 budget.

I have read/searched many forums on this conundrum but never really been able to find a conclusive answer....what is the current thinking ?

Thanks for reading this far and I eagerly await any/all suggestions. Be kind...I'm new to these terrific little motors!!

Cheers
David

[wa5]

Put a set of Cleveland heads onto the Rootes Groups finest along with a boss manifold and bit of a cam ... that should give you plenty of fasts.. only computer you will need, will be in the electronic ignition..

Bogus Boss + Tiger = Win

Always found it kinda amusing that a Chrysler was sold with a Ford engine ..
Moreso that they did it twice.... (Simca Veddette).

This might shed some light on modified 4ages.

http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm

heres Bills page on Stock GEs...

http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock.htm

[Billzilla]

Gen 5 3SGE in a Se7en is the go mate.

[ian]

hi
get in touch with a good friend of mine in perth
craig bradtke he races these things and is a good source of knowledge

[email protected]

[white_sandshoe]

I'm with Billzilla... 3SGE all the way. I've got a series 2 laying around. about the same power as a silver top, but with more torque... Torque's where it's at baby!

[Jonny Rochester]

If you have a slight interest in tuning, factor in the cost of a programable ECU. I can recomend a 20v with Adaptronic as being very cheap and effective. I could even send you maps to run it sweet (same as what I have).

If you want big cams and all the power, you need a programable ECU anyhow.

[AdrianS]

If you are a tinkerer, look into megasquirt - fully programmable diy ecu, very cheap if you are prepared to build it yourself. There are a few 4AGE's running it, including some silver/blacktops.

[Tiger_DFT]

hi
get in touch with a good friend of mine in perth
craig bradtke he races these things and is a good source of knowledge

[email protected]

Boy is it a small world....I worked at Caterpillar of Aus (1966 - 1980) with the erstwhile Criag Bradtke (we nicknamed him Craig Breedlove!!). I then went to PNG in the late eighties and lo and behold....there was Craig.

I have lost track of him for the 20 years! I will contact him....thanks.

Cheers
David Tweddle

[Tiger_DFT]

Put a set of Cleveland heads onto the Rootes Groups finest along with a boss manifold and bit of a cam ... that should give you plenty of fasts.. only computer you will need, will be in the electronic ignition..

Bogus Boss + Tiger = Win

Always found it kinda amusing that a Chrysler was sold with a Ford engine ..
Moreso that they did it twice.... (Simca Veddette).

This might shed some light on modified 4ages.

http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm

heres Bills page on Stock GEs...

http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock.htm

Hi, I have had the Tiger for years...I did up the motor in the 80's following a Ford Motorsports...."how to get 400hp out of your 302 guide". They rev theirs harder than I do (small rod bolts!!). It did crank out 320hp atw. Best 1/4 mile time 13.1 at 121 mph.
Here is a video of me being a liar in front of the local Dunsborough cops at the last Meelup hillclimb! I couldn't help myself!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzZptYCV6Ew

Thanks everybody for suggestions and reading (which I had already read btw).

Might see if I can find a 3sge ... will it bolt up to my T50?

Being a 2000cc will preclude me from Marque Sports car class (which is no big deal).

Cheers
David

[Tiger_DFT]

If you have a slight interest in tuning, factor in the cost of a programable ECU. I can recomend a 20v with Adaptronic as being very cheap and effective. I could even send you maps to run it sweet (same as what I have).

If you want big cams and all the power, you need a programable ECU anyhow.

Hi Jonny,

Thanks for the offer ..very kind indeed.. Is yours 20V a ST or BT....are you happy with it?

I would find it interesting to tune an ECU rather than mixture screws/timing/dist weights etc...all of which I have spent years fiddling with.

How much should I pay for an Adaptronic. I had intended to fit cams and increase comp without really knowing what a 20V needs most!! I need to spend more time on this forum (which I will)!!

Cheers
David

[Tiger_DFT]

Gen 5 3SGE in a Se7en is the go mate.

Very, very nice!!

[Tiger_DFT]

Hi all

Some of you have asked for some photos of the Tiger (1965 Mk1A B9472884))...

Here it is...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9&id=606978284

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...5&id=606978284

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...5&id=606978284

Cheers and thanks again for your ideas....and NO I don't want to sell the Tiger...tooo much blood (literally, sweat and tears...not easy to work on!!).

David

[spectral]

Are there any rules in the category that you plan to race in that dictate engine size?

[Hen]

My opinion is:
- if you will be happy with the power output of a blacktop, go with that. It's relatively simple to put in, and should get a sub 600kg car moving fast.
- But if you will want to silly down the track I'd start building a big cam/headwork/etc 16V (or 3S) and get an ECU that you can fiddle with.

Hen

[GUN METAL]

OK clubmans are heaps of fun, great track car choice.

so the budget is 4-5 grand, thing is is you go a 3 s or similar you will be do a fair bit if mucking around with mounts, bell housing / clutch gear box bla bla. For that budget i would be going for the BT with factory ECU.

another could be go a AE101 4A GZE and enjoy the supercharger whine.

I have only driven one clubman and it was 4AGTE powered, it has won just about every supersprint in NSW, very fast car, completely stock internal with a basic T25?? strapped on the side.

yuo could whack in the GZE and then when funds allow but the turbo on it.

thing is what sort of gear box and diff is it running / you start whacking decent torque down there and things may not last so long regardless of the engine.


Just to be a bit different you could allways whack in a 20B or a 13BT

EDIT, having just watched a few of your vids whack in a supercharged 1UZ.

seriously the tiger looked like fun, but from the vid it looked just a little overpowered ?, maybe handling could have done with some sorting ?

oh, and didnt Maxwell Smart agent 86 drive one of these ?