Information needed on balljoints

[oldcorollas]

the issue with S13/S14 is that they are similar in size but different taper... maybe some manufacturers folllowed some sort of pattern tho

[jonra23]

I read somewhere that a balljoint off a TR Magna is meant to fit in a AE86 LCA and into bottom of a S13 spindle.
Will probably go to parts outlet with some verniers and check it out if no-one can confirm one way or another.

regards
jon

[oldcorollas]

would be good if ya could see if you can compare it directly to an S13 BJ at the same time?

would certainly solve a few issues....

[EVOSTi]

I read somewhere that a balljoint off a TR Magna is meant to fit in a AE86 LCA and into bottom of a S13 spindle.
Will probably go to parts outlet with some verniers and check it out if no-one can confirm one way or another.

regards
jon

ive heard this rumour also, but sprinter saurus looked at this and apparently its not even close. but im hanging on to the slim chance that maybe he was given the wrong part or something cause i wanna use my sprinter arms when i go to s13 hubs.

[jonra23]

Mutters and digs out verniers.
Makes list
RA23 Press fit size
S13 Taper
TR Press fit size
TR Taper

Anything else?

[EVOSTi]

im just gonna go and assume that the 23 balljoint has the same diameter at the bottom as the 86

i was thinking of going to autopro and asking if i could go through there stuff and measure them, i was also going to check other magna balljoints just incase whoever started the rumour got thier magnas confused.

[jonra23]

Can't be that many magna ball joints, really has only been 3 full model changes.

[clubagreenie]

Here's the morse taper infor I could find

<quote>
HISTORICAL NOTE

You might find it interesting to note that a problem similar to the one mentioned above is probably why Morse tapers are not perfectly consistent to this day. A Morse taper is listed as "about 5/8" per foot". Standard fixtures were probably made years ago and machines and tools over the years were made to match these fixtures. Modern measurement techniques were able to establish that these fixtures were not all perfectly consistent in angle. Changing the angle, however, would make it impossible for new parts to fit the old machines. Therefore, today we have Morse tapers that each vary slightly from a taper of 5/8" (.6250") per foot. The actual tapers for each number Morse taper are as follows:
MORSE
TAPER # TAPER PER FT. TAPER PER IN.

0 .62460 .05205
1 .59858 .04988
2 .59941 .04995
3 .60235 .05019
4 .62326 .05193
5 .63151 .05262
6 .62565 .05213
7 .62400 .05200

</quote>

from http://www.sherline.com/dimen.htm

and

<quote>
Morse Taper

Morse tapers come in eight sizes identified by number -- #0 through #7. Often this is abbreviated as MT followed by a digit, for example a Morse taper number 4 would be MT4. Morse taper is one of the self-holding tapers or slow tapers that is it has a very shallow angle, typically only 2 or 3 degrees, which causes them to wedge themselves in the socket so firmly that no locking device is required. Self-releasing or fast tapers do not do this. Even though it a self-holding taper a draw bar is needed when milling because cutting forces, side forces and vibration can cause the taper to come loose which can result in a very dangerous sitution (a flying tool).

Morse tapers can have two types of ends:
* tang to facilitate removal with a drift (Primaraly use in drill presses)
* threaded to be held in place with a draw bar

The taper itself is roughly 5/8" per foot, but exact ratios and dimensions for the various sizes of tang type tapers are given below.


Taper Taper Gauge Line Minor Taper Angle
# Diameter Diameter Length
0 19.212:1 0.3561" (9.045mm) 0.252" 2.00" 1°29'27"

1 20.047:1 0.4750" (12.065mm) 0.369" 2.126" 1°25'43"

2 20.020:1 0.700" (17.780mm) 0.572" 2.562" 1°25'50"

3 19.922:1 0.938" (23.825mm) 0.778" 3.188" 1°26'16"

4 19.254:1 1.231" (31.267mm) 1.020" 4.064" 1°29'15"

5 19.002:1 1.748" (44.399mm) 1.475" 5.188" 1°20'26"

6 19.180:1 2.494" (63.348mm) 2.116" 7.252" 1°29'36"

7 19.231:1 3.270" (83.058mm) 2.750" 10.00" 1°29'25"


</quote>
Sorry if it's out of line but creating tables was never a strong point

Just thought if any of these match any of the ball joints then it easier and cheaper to ask a machinist to ream a #x morse taper than to match something that involves measuring etc as tools are off the shelf.

[EVOSTi]

good info mate.

yeah so if you can find a balljoint that presses into your control arm, theoretically if you find one with a bigger tapper than you need you can machine it down.

[jonra23]

Went for a drive around armed with verniers today.

No-one keeps stock anymore, we can get them in was the normal reply, not realy that intereted when i said i wanted to get some measurements.

Going to try mitsubishi tomorrow.

Regards
Jon

[clubagreenie]

The other option would be is to find a joint that will screw into your arm that is also rebuildable (has a circlip in the underside) and have a new ball/taper made to a morse size while having the socket reamed to match.

[Hen]

From my experience searching for balljoints, I'd say almost every taper is different. I am yet to find a balljoint that fits a different steering arm properly. Though I've really only checked with S13 and RA60 steering arms.

Hen

[clubagreenie]

What about a sleeve made to slip over the ball joint and fit the hole?

[jonra23]

Apparently no Mitsubishi dealer in Brisbane stocks TR balljoints, the local dealer looked it up on his parts computer.

Measured a couple at wrecking yard (friendly people, real freindly dog, was happier when he growled at me first off).

TM to TR definitely doesn't fit, press in section is only 39mm.

TS looks promising allthough couldnt get a real good measurement, it has a circlip to retain it, above the circlip is 42mm, below the circlip is slightly larger, around 0.2mm per side would be my guess.

I measured the taper in the spindle as thought it was more accurate to get good dsitances beteen measurments to calc taper.

Top is 14.4mm, bottom is 17.4mm, height is 24mm making taper 1mm in 8mm.

Does anyone have the taper of an S13 balljoint?

regards
jon

[EVOSTi]

i had one somewhere but i think someone chucked it. i do however have a S13 spindle so i can measure where the balljoint goes tomorrow at work if i remember.