Replace my SC12 with WHAT ?..to get a reliable 140-170 kw at the treads

[GUN METAL]

Sorry about the title,....... let me explain.

I have an AE101 4AGZE in my beloved Adub. Its had a fair bit done to it by previous owner including cams, head work, valves / porting, 175 Nevo, HKS extractors, Motec M4 and makes a nice 140 kw at the wheels.

I love it to death and its served me well for years both on and off the track.

Problem is late last year it dropped boost and was making some very bad noises, removal found 50% of the teflon gone....like TOTALLY GONE !

So got another SC12 whacked it in was beautiful, but unfortunately it too is now making some bad noises sounds like there is no oil in the gear case (but there is, however it is still making plenty of boost )), funny thing is it seems alot worse at idle (maybe i just cant hear it over the 3 inch exhaust under throttle).

Anyway its still making good boost but bad noises ususlly mean means the inevitable failure..........and i dont want that !

Before we installed the last one was looking at some other options, SC14 was going to be too expensive for little gains over the SC12, Turbo was big $$$$ and probly not alot of gain either if i went for a turbo with little lag, so that why i just replaced it, unfortunately knowing the SC was around the same age and not knowing the history knew it was a suck it and see option.

So now only a few months after the latest SC12 is in there i am worried about its life expectancy again so looking into soem replacement options.

1) SC12 of good condition/restored, but who knows if they can even be rebuilt / restored and if you can where and what are the associated costs would even make it feasible ???????

2) SC14, i dont have the facility to fab much / anything myself, going this option would mean ditching the 175 nevo but hopefully still running the same boost without as much overdriving. But again the SC14 will still be an unknown quantity, could even be older than the 93 model SC12 i am allready running.

3) Turbo, i am sure a T2560 or thereabouts will make same or more power with little lag or i could go the 2860 and probly make like 200 kw but at the expense of lag and probly limited engine life if i go running around the 20 PSI on the track. Irrespective of the turbo selection to get all the decent quality gear (read new and reliable) and havesome with the skilz and gear to install it properly i will be looking down the barrel of 6 grand OUCH ! At least i could sell off the extractors, Nevo pulley for a bit of refund.

4) Twin screw, havent done alot of research but this sounds like a good option. Much more efficient than the roots blowers, so more power at same boost. I beleive i can pick up a new one for around the 1500 mark (so similar to a new turbo) BUT theres all the fab work, drive set up, packaging issues, and from what i understand reliability issues if now plumbed correctly etc etc etc, DOES ANYONE KNOW OF SOMEONE IN SYDNEY WHO CAN SUPPLY AND INSTALL THESE THINGS ????????????

5) ENGINE SWAP !, SELL OF THE 140KW 4AGZE and look elsewhere, unfortunately all these options are going to be stupid money......................especially if i get someone else to do it.........who wants a 4A making 140 kw ?...make me an offer !

Interested in some feedback / ideas / associated costs / places to get the options done in Sydney

Thanks,

[Cuzzo]

Leave the mr2 how it is?

[kassma]

Hey Gun Metal...

Well, you asked for opinion, and here it is... Before I decided to 20v BT, I was looking at various options, of which one was Force inductions... IE: SC and Turbo.

I test drove a SC AW11 and found it was producing great grunt and gobs of mid range torque... But it just didn't feel the same as my NA AW11... The car I test drove had some suspension work done, whereas mine at the time was stock as a rock... Top end power was not there....

Also... From past experience with Turbo cars, Boost is a by-product of air flow, and air flow is what makes power, not boost. Roots type SC are not very efficient, and heat up the air considerably when increasing boost... Hence, I wouldn't be considering the SC12 or SC14.

Hence, get a new type SC (Current technology, in which I have limited experience), or opt for a Turbo setup. I don't believe it will set you back $6K, as when I was looking at Turbo charging my AW11, I was looking at $6K, which included new ECU, Engine (GZE), Manifold, Exhaust, Intercooler, Pump, etc, etc, etc. I doubt your setup would come anywhere close.

Check out Carl Crawford Turbo manifold & Downpipe... this will probably set you back about $800, maybe even less with a better current exchange rate. Get a fairly good second hand turbo of ebay or wreckers... I've seen some real bargains going for around $300-400, of GT28 Turbos of a Silvia or GTR... these are rated at about 200-300Hp, more than sufficient for a 4agze. Also, try to look for ball bearing turbo, they will spool up a lot faster (But require longer idle time after a hard run). Pretty much the rest you have already, with probably a minor retune of the ECU for Turbo application.

Alternatively, a new type SC would also be a goer... but alas, I have no experience with this, so I will leave somebody else to comment on this. All I know about is the Eaton M9 SC, which is extremely efficient and well suited for the 4agze... that's about it.

Personally, if I was you... I would seriously consider going turbo... But I would probably be doing most of the work myself...

Let us know how you go...

MIKE.

[eeeyan]

for once i agree with cuzzo seems like a pretty good combo as it is.. is it that much hassle to change the SC12 over when it fails? If not just go with how it is now.

I remember reading a thread somewhere of someone else messing with the twin screw setup but cant be fudged looking for it have a search...

[tomvale13]

I didn't realise going from agze to agte was so pricey..??

Maybe td04, steampipe mani, w2a cooler?? (just throwing out suggestions..)

[YLD-16L]

Brand new GT28RS = $1200
Turbo manifold = $800
Oil, water lines and fittings to turbo = $350
Dump pipe to existing exhaust = $250
Modify sump for oil drain = $100
exhaust manifold gasket = $30
NA Inlet manifold and throttle body = $150
Inlet manifold gasket = $30
Inline oil filter for turbo = $100
Dyno tune = $500
Pipework in aluminium or stainless = $500
Miscellaneous sealants and fluids = $150
BOV = $50


Total = $4210

Some stuff could be had for less obviously, doing it carefully I don't think a total cost of around $3500 would be out of the question.


That could make you a safe 180+rwkw on less than 20psi, probably more like 18psi and do it day in and day out on a good tune.


Personally though in your case I'd stick with what you've got, it's a good package.

[-GT-]

Turbo - it's a no brainer and will be easily done for less than $6k given you have ecu, cooler, etc etc already, AND the SC setup bits to sell and recoup.

OR, do nothing and be happy with a 140kW gze setup. But we all know this isn't going to happen.

And with the heads, cam, ecu etc you have already it will make the power easily, you won't need anything like 20psi for 170kw, and then next time this dilemma comes up you can just wind the boost up further.

Hey cuzzo, your 200+ kWs, any headwork or cams? Or just good cooler, tune and turbo selection? Finney's car made 170kW, what turbo and boost was that at? So what do we think Gun's setup could do with a well matched turbo?

In summary: TURBRO.

Edit: Oh, and because we've all automatically assumed and aimed at the top end of your target power range (i didn't even notice the "140 - " until after i posted), if you only want to achieve a reliable 140kW, don't change a thing. How long has your current 140kW setup run for now?

[TERRA Operative]

The charger can be rebuilt to an extent.

If it's just bearings, you can't get them, yet..... I'm chasing them up from NSK Japan to see if I can purchase a few to make bearing rebuild kits or the like. They seem to be available, but it's a matter of how many I have to buy in one go....
As for the Teflon, I think if that's stuffed, then the blower is terminal, unless someone knows a place where recoating can be done...

Apart from that, it's just a matter of pulling it all down (pretty easy for an SC14. I did it last night in 15 minutes with basic hand tools), cleaning it out and re assembling it. The trick is to not remove the gears or undo the lobes unless you really have to (ie, only if those bearings are shot). It's a big pain to reset the clearances...

[Cuzzo]

Hey cuzzo, your 200+ kWs, any headwork or cams? Or just good cooler, tune and turbo selection? Finney's car made 170kW, what turbo and boost was that at? So what do we think Gun's setup could do with a well matched turbo?

Ebay cooler, tune (microtech) gt2871rs 18psi.

very slight head port no cams, mls gasket, o-ringed, lightened flywheel. bout it.Kelway manifold.

[trdee]

I beleive the 6k price is what gun was quoted for a shop to do all the work for him if i remember right?

It would of course be far cheaper if you sourced the parts yourself and installed it yourself

[the_random_hero]

Hmm, I do believe I know somebody who can re-teflon the rotors but IMO twinscrew is a much better option. It's a little bit more expensive, but constant boost + efficiency = win.

[boona]

I reckon building the car is most of the fun. So if it was me, I would go turbo, and enjoy the experience and pain associated with the change.

If money is an issue, take the time to source cheap parts, and do as much of the labour yourself?

[tomvale13]

fark yeah, shane's loosely quoted using awesome parts (re: garret, not IHI factory unit) and is not too pricey..

Obviously looking at what others have done re: cooling will potentially save big $$'s.

[finney]

turbo wins hands down... considering my old one made 163fwkw on an internally stock bigport GZE with and ECU and TD04L. surely with a bigger ball bearing unit you'll be up at 200kw (cuzzo is perfect proof of this)

mine was reliable to a point.. engine mounts were not my friend that was for sure

p.s. what ever happened to that red AW11 from a few years ago that was getting the twinscrew put in it? forgotten who was building it but i'm sure someone here remembers.

[Harreh]

RonRon was building it.

Still in development I believe.

I have looked quite seriously into twinscrew as you'd know gun however now as times getting closer I think it might just be better to turbo the bastard. More power, more flexibility.