2ZZ ECU re-mapping woes

[TRD184]

hey im not sure about the amount of knowledge on here of the ZZT231, but i have a question about the ECU used and how it works in regards to its "Learning" or constant re-mapping.
if i was to fit a larger throttle body to the car, to a certain extent the ECU would compensate for the increased airflow by adjusting its map right?? if im right in saying that, does anyone have an idea of what that percentage may be? i have a larger throttle body offered to me for absolutely nothing. but knowing if its even going to work with the factory ECU would be great, also, the same question, but in relation to higher flow injectors, i have these available to me for nothing aswell, im unsure of the cc's, but again to a certain point the ECU would relearn...? obviously the best way to do these mods would be an aftermarket ECU, but with the factory ECU, is it at all benificial?

[Roundy]

Total waste of time.

With a stock or near stock engine the throttle body almost certainly won't be a restriction which will mean it won't really be getting more air into the engine.

[TRD184]

hmmm, bah-bow, oh well, kinda what i expected

[thechuckster]

a- larger throttle body - see Roundy's post

b- larger injectors - ECU's dont remap themselves. you'd end up running constantly rich, hotter and probably make less power. During cruise, mild driving or warm idle, the engine would be in closed-loop mode, but this would simply pull out fuel to get closer to the factory AFM targets.

Adaptronic and some of the high-end Motec ECUs can be set to auto-tune modes - but that's something you do with a wideband O2 sensor and only when you 95% happy with the tune.

If the 2ZZ ECU has an OBDII port, you could (with the right hardware) get detailed data about the engine as you are running but no way could you revise the fuel maps.

You might be confusing closed-loop mode with auto-tune?

[TRD184]

hmmm could be, so basically, from what i gather here, i need 2 buy an ECU thanks for the help

[Lachie]

Even the ECU with learning features aren't really any good at mapping an engine. The problem is in the sampling rate of the sensors and he ECU. It can't get the info and adjust things fast enough to be able to create a decent map.

[big_zop]

There is a Power FC available for the Celica, and its not as expensive as you think.

But on this thread, it doesnt have auto tune so that would cost extra.

[thechuckster]

auto-tune isn't something you use to setup a map from scratch - it's more a tool for refinement of fuel maps.

[JP]

powerfc also requires a $500 datalogit box to be of any real use too

[MR22ZZ]

PowerFC cost me $750 NEW!!! but I got it when the Yen was @ 105 to the AU$, still comes out pretty cheap when you combine with the Datalogit stuff. You dont 'need' the datalogit stuff either, it just opens up more functionality. If you simply want to tune a better fuel map the PowerFC is fine.

[SuperDave]

Currently $1015 or so delivered for a PowerFC. The datalogit is only needed if you want to tune &/or log.

[JP]

PowerFC cost me $750 NEW!!! but I got it when the Yen was @ 105 to the AU$, still comes out pretty cheap when you combine with the Datalogit stuff. You dont 'need' the datalogit stuff either, it just opens up more functionality. If you simply want to tune a better fuel map the PowerFC is fine.

How do you tune a better fuel map properly when you dont have a direct wideband input and logging of the powerfc?

IMO the datalogit is essential when tuning a powerfc, people who go without are stuck at the mercy of their tuner or are dumb enough to try and tune with the hand controller

[MR22ZZ]

not everyone is equiped of skilled to do the tuning themselves though Jason

what's wrong with being at the mercy of the tuner, especially when you use a tuning who is preficient in using the PowerFC.

That said, personally my PFC is still sitting in a box until I can get an engine for my conversion.

[JP]

If you dont want to learn how your engine works or how the tuning works thats fine... It's just better to have your own Datalogit for your powerfc so you can get the most out of it. It will cost you a LOT of cash to get a perfect powerfc tune from most tuners, it does take quite a lot of time to get it completely dialed in for all situations (Load, temp etc etc). Lots of people overlook this and think that a single tuning session of a couple of hours of dyno time will cover everything they'll ever need. You only need to look at some of the tuning threads on here to find the gains that can be had from doing your own minor touch-ups over time. An additional advantage of owning a powerfc is the ability to verify the changes made by your professional tuner, to see what they actually did. Then you can see if you're getting ripped off if they've just cleaned up the fuel map and not touched the vvt or timing maps. I believe SuperDave has found some value in his Datalogit purchase to go with his 2zz pfc even after he spent the coin with a "gun" tuner.

For the OP, what are the goals you hope to achieve by fitting an aftermarket ECU?

[big_zop]

Oh, and if you havent already found this link, it is a gold mine of 2ZZ Power FC info.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258454

There is a lot of info and links to other specific information contained within so have a good read.