Camber tops and spherical bearings

[YLD-16L]

Hi all, in the next couple of days I am going to fit up some new camber tops and I have a couple of ideas on how I could tackle it but would like some feedback from people who have experience with both setups or knowledge on the topic.

Option 1: Have strut, and spring hat fastened to the spherical bearing directly i.e. spherical bearing takes thrust and axial roles. Problem with this is that the spherical bearing will not rotate with the strut in steering movement, instead the dampener shaft will rotate (which is no issue) but the springs will have nothing to help them rotate through steering motion just the interface between them and the perch and hat.

Plenty of jap setups are like option 1 and seem to work fine, should I just do the same?? It'd be easy, neat and simple.

Option 2: Same as option 1 but machine a reciever into the spring hat to accept a thrust bearing so the spring can rotate during steering movement. I am not entirely sure there is room for this setup though and won't know until tomorrow. This setup would have a spherical bearing and thrust bearing but the spherical bearing would still be bearing the full load, the thrust bearing would only be in place to allow the spring to rotate during steering movement.


I hope the above was a clear enough explanation and I look forward to feedback, particularly on option 1 and whether it's a sound option.


Other notes on the setup are: I can't use a T3 style top hat with thrust bearing as that design does not fit over my inverted Bilstien dampeners.

[MWP]

... spherical bearing will not rotate with the strut in steering movement, instead the dampener shaft will rotate ...

I dont understand this? why wont it?
Its a spherical bearing, its free to turn.

Anyway, ive gone with option 1 with my setup.
All the load (spring & damper) on the spherical bearing.

[YLD-16L]

I dont understand this? why wont it?
Its a spherical bearing, its free to turn.

Anyway, ive gone with option 1 with my setup.
All the load (spring & damper) on the spherical bearing.

They don't tend to turn too freely once loaded up with the weight of the car though and the dampener shaft offers less resistance in turning.


Thanks for the input and the vote for option 1

Edit: it's relatively easy to go from option 1 to option 2 if there are issues so I guess that would be a logical progression if it didn't work.

[timbosaurus]

I also don't understand.

The setup in mine (TwentyEight's camber plates) has a spherical bearing (that's what ppl call a pillow ball too right?) in the camber top. There is a small spacer between that bearing and the springs top hat to allow full movement without the top hat hitting the camber plate.

The spherical bearing (along with the springs, strut, shock and shaft) rotates when steering.

The only concern I've got, is that the spherical bearing takes all of the load... I assume they can handle it?

[YLD-16L]

I also don't understand.

The setup in mine (TwentyEight's camber plates) has a spherical bearing (that's what ppl call a pillow ball too right?) in the camber top. There is a small spacer between that bearing and the springs top hat to allow full movement without the top hat hitting the camber plate.

The spherical bearing (along with the springs, strut, shock and shaft) rotates when steering.

The only concern I've got, is that the spherical bearing takes all of the load... I assume they can handle it?

That's what I wanted to hear, I'm perfectly happy to run it that way if that is the case but many (not just T3) state that once loaded up a spherical bearing won't turn easily and therefore the need to instal the thrust bearing in addition to the spherical bearing.

I have seen two Aus companies do it this way + T3 so I thought I would get some feedback and see how necessary it was . They all execute the setups in different ways too interestingly.

[Cuzzo]

Shane you have explained what i have been trying to with the T3 setup tops.

The tube shouldnt rotate. Its doesnt from factory so it should when modded. Dont need them to wear more.

[SilverRA23]

There is lots of argument for and against the whole japanese style strut top arrangement. I figure thousands of japanese guys can't be too wrong, despite the design not being "ideal"

Keep an eye on the spherical and if it flogs out, fit a new one

[1JZ-Rolla]

Good thread! I guess it depends if you plan to have your top spring hat floating on the damper strut like the T3 setup, which in turn means the spring will push the hat up against the bottom of your camber plate and bind on turning (requiring a thrust bearing), or fixed against the step in the damper strut, with a machined spacer that maintains clearance between the camber plate & top hat, which means the spherical bearing takes both loads (I think I read right that its the latter option you're building?).

I noticed also with my T3 setup, using the same gold section that you have, there is a super thin sleeve that slips inside the spherical bearing. Without it, there might be some freeplay (albeit minimal) side to side with the damper shaft inserted. Check yours to see if this is the case?

[YLD-16L]

Good thread! I guess it depends if you plan to have your top spring hat floating on the damper strut like the T3 setup, which in turn means the spring will push the hat up against the bottom of your camber plate and bind on turning (requiring a thrust bearing), or fixed against the step in the damper strut, with a machined spacer that maintains clearance between the camber plate & top hat, which means the spherical bearing takes both loads (I think I read right that its the latter option you're building?).

I noticed also with my T3 setup, using the same gold section that you have, there is a super thin sleeve that slips inside the spherical bearing. Without it, there might be some freeplay (albeit minimal) side to side with the damper shaft inserted. Check yours to see if this is the case?

No thin sleeve in mine, that's fine though as the spacers I was planning to make were going to have that sleeve on them.

Looking at them last night I think it will be tight for space in trying to keep the upper spring hat spaced far enough from the spherical bearing to prevent the hat fouling on anything and leaving enough thread on top of the spherical bearing to run a small spacer to prevent the nut from fouling during movement.

[SilverRA23]

My Cusco camber tops come with a shock top nut that also incorporates a spacer and a sleeve to go inside the spherical.

See below

The inside is threaded for most of the length, but at the bottom has a shoulder machined in so it can sit over the top of the shock shaft. (I don't think mine will actuallu use this once I have put my coil over top hat on)

Unfortunately its the wrong thread for my Koni's so I am going to get some replica's machined up to suit them.

[horse]

Shane,
with option two you mean something like this yeah?
http://www.maddat.com.au/suspension-parts.php (look halfway down at Upgrade to thrust bearing)

[1JZ-Rolla]

I can't see exactly what those thrust bearing upgrade parts are or how they work, and clicking on the image brings up an enlarged picture of camber plates?

[YLD-16L]

Cheers for the pics, the nut tube looks neat. I'll basically make an upside down version of that minus the thread as the one in you pic is beyond my tooling at the moment.

Huy, yep that is exactly what option two would entail. The mad dat ones were one of the companies that made me question the necessity off it all.

[Cuzzo]

Any datos share the same strut top pattern as the ke30?

[The Real Roadrunner]

Unfortunately its the wrong thread for my Koni's so I am going to get some replica's machined up to suit them.]

Can you ,easure the id of your spherical bearing? i have 30 of these suckers at work i had made up as it was the minimum run i could get done on a CNC lathe. they may suit T3 bearings with a bit macined off the section that sits inside the bearing, just depends on how much meat you will have left.

Tein bearings are about 20mm id from memory but ill double check later today.

They suit SW20 rear inserts which have a 14x1.5mm thread.

cheers
linden