Is membership a Joke

[TheToyman75]

wow I haven't got anything constructive to add but what I will say is the club seems to be a joke!! If you haven't got time to voulonteer why do so?

After donating my personal time effort and money to this club for a decade I tend to take some things personally.

The small number of us who care dont find it funny or your post funny.

Take a month long holiday and think about it - Your Out !

[WiLo]

If you haven't got time to volunteer why do so?

if the current board didnt volunteer no one else would have and it would have caused the demise of the club?

[TheToyman75]

This is a great resource, and worth the membership to support.

I understand the frustration of the people volunteering, and hope they don't all just pull the pin. And I don't want to add to the pressure they're already under. I do have a couple of points though:

- Although a NSW club, you have paid interstate members, who will not be able to attend meetings, so there needs to be consideration given to providing them with something for their money (otherwise call it a donation). To them, the online resources, and perhaps the member packs, are what motivates them.
- For those that do the right thing and contribute by paying membership, no matter what their motivation, member access to the online forum shouldn't take months. If it is, someone has to take constructive critism and realise there is a problem that needs a solution.
- Member packs? Well, maybe people need to understand they take time to send, and that probably has been made clear. I guess a suggestion could be that if they're causing too much grief to actually provide, etc. maybe whether they continue or in what form needs to be reviewed?

Personally, I wouldn't have entered a comment in here that involved critising the people who work hard to provide this. But I wasn't so impressed with the reaction of some to someone voicing a concern, to the effect of "get over it, you'll get it when you get it" and all manner of defensive/reactive responses. Maybe the guy's a bit impatient, but perhaps less defensive knee-jerk reactions, and recognising there could be an issue or two that needs consideration to resolve in the future.

Once you take money for something, they are effectively a customer, and if you're not providing what they pay for, you've got to expect complaints sooner or later and need to decide how you'll deal with them. Of course, there is always the option to tell them to get lost, with the associated consequences.

Gene,

Never be afraid to offer what is actually constructive critism - especially in a polite and well formed post like yours. The club does have issues, there is a huge amount we want to improve but our resorces are limied and we do the best we can while working slowly towards making things better. The key problem we have battled for some time was the web hosting and forum performance. Now that we have this all but sorted we can again focus on the core of the club itself again.

The Toymods board has always been very conscious of what benefits we can provide for interstate members and realise it is limited due to the fact that events are based in NSW. In the early days of the club it was seen as more of an issue as the local based members got to come to meetings and events and benefited from the social interaction.

These days it seems to be less of an issue. Less people actualy bother to turn up to the monthly meetings and by having the deciated events sections for each state we have tried to bring each states group of enthusiasts together. Its not much but its someting.

These days the forums themselves, the information here and the social network it provides brings more benefit to members than the club itself can without them. The forums have become the social portal as such and we will keep them Free for as long as we are able - Those days may be numbered due to the ever increasing hosting costs and dwindling financial support for the club itself.

The other area we have tried to foster for interstate members is to encourage interstate members to approach their local businesses to offer discounts to Toymods car club members. Bursons for example are a parts retailer in most easter states of Australia, I simply dont have time I used to have to chase new sponsors.


In terms for why wirysage got a negative responce in this thread the answer is pretty simple. Let me spell it out in order of events:

Wirysage PM'd Kirsty and was told his membership pack was waiting on our T-Shirt delivery.

He started a new thread in this section asking about it - Ignoring the official thread for maters of this kind.

Then he started this thread having a winge and making more noise like spoilt 2 year old.

Thats aksing in 3 places - 2 of them AFTER he had received an official answer to the question.

HOW MANY TIMES DOES ONE PERSON NEED TO BE TOLD THE ONE THING ? His enquiry was answered on the first PM - we are waiting on Shirts, end of story.

There are not many of us who still put the effort in required to run this club and its because of cocks like this that the numbers hsrink every year, we have all been doing it for a long time and to be honest yes most of us are jaded and over it. Its not just that we have jobs, partners, familys and responcibilities - none of us are young uni students with time to burn. Even my 5 year old does not ask the same question over and over again after getting an answer.

We or at least I am over that fact that so many expect so much and are willing to do so little other than look after there own self serving interests. So yes I do get short when other people can only think of themselves, while the few remaining board members have to deal with multiple PM's, emails, forum applications and the legal and government requirements of trying to maintain this club in our spare time. And its time thats the issue, it all takes time. If I have the choice to answer a PM about a question I have already answered or to answer one from someone I haven't Guess which one I pick.

[TheToyman75]

Thanks for the Rep people. Also I just posed in the thread rollas.
Thanks for everyones input in this topic we have all highlighted many fundamental problems that need fixing in this thread.

One of the biggest things that has been highlighted bythis thread is that teh Rep system is well floored and that if you winge loudly enough someone will rep you without bothering to consider if your worthy.

You were neg repped for starting 2 threads about the same topic when there was already one in this section. That happens in other sections all the time and is a valid thing.

ALL your rep has been from this thread.

[ed]

flip side:

what would the club be like without the internet?

think about that, and then think about the difference between the internet and the logistical reality of people physically converging at a geographic location. the two are completely different...

its unrealistic to expect the physical club to continue to function the same without resolving some of these disparities isnt it?

unless of course youre happy for the physical club to exist in isolation from the intahweb

[TheToyman75]

Ed,

Long before your appearance the club was a much much different entity and will never be as it was again.

Yes it was smaller and it was more insular. There would have been maybe 20 or 25 guys turn up to every meeting and event tho, everyone was happy to actually join and it was a rewarding club to be part of.

We generally all knew each others, name, car, family and generally the inside of each others garage. It was more like an extended family

The word changes and Toymods has done its best to change with it. No one is suggesting the internet presence is a bad thing, but a lack of physical club presence will see the death of the club and with it these forums. The few provide for the many and the few are thinning out !

When the remianing board members decide to pack it in this forum ceases to exist, its not self sufficent, it does not run on its own and it isn't cheap !

[TheToyman75]

Now that I have had my Rant and a Caffine fix I would like to a less emotional outburst.

None of us on the board feels the current membership delays are acceptable. We have had an accumulative hit in this area and a few small things have caused a big delay - twice in a row.

We are working towards sorting things out and have already made changes and improvements within our own internal processes to help prevent it happening again. More are in discussion to revive the process to its former efficiency which is our aim.

Its never going to be a quick over night or couple of day process. It will take a little time and always porobably longer than people want to wait. But it will get better.

We ask you bare with us though the rough bit and accept that what seems like simple process takes time to co-ordinate when it involves several busy people trying to do this in our spare time. Those of us that are left and tight, in agreenace and function as a team like we have not had for a long time. So things will get better and we are going as fast as we can.

Thanks.

[GUN METAL]

Rod,

I HAVENT HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD AND ASSOCIATED THREADS SO EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE IF THIS REPLY SEEM OUT OF PLACE.

So it all stemmed from a new member not having their intitlements in what was considered a reasonable time. I really think it boils down to the general overloading of committe members. I dont have number on how many people are active on the forum but i am guessing its HEAPS !

I apprecaite all the time and effort all the board put into not only the phsical club but the forum particularly.

It is a great recource and also a great place to meet and help like mided people.

As you say it costs, and i totally understand that.

I also realise this next statement is going to piss people off, but here goes.

If we think about Toymods as a club (and it is) then like all other clubs i have been in or currently a member you have to PAY to be a member. All clubs have there rules and regs and that influences the type of people they want to attract. The thing is that to be a member you PAY to be a member, whether its a car club, your local services club , hell even a freaking scrap booking club you pay to be a memeber.

An example closer to home for me is the MR2 club, you pay to be a member and you get all the associated benifits. They have a forum as well and the only way you can use it is to be a PAID MEMBER.

Sure there are other furums i could go to but i simply dont, i have found the resources and the general operation of the forum and its management and self regulation excellent, and that is a credit to all those who operate and moderate it !

So why not get rid of forum members and just have CLUB memebers ?

Remember when the forum was reborn last time for the betterment of the club and the forum inparticular, everyone benifits, well maybe its time for the forum to be reborn again ?


I dont want to limit information to anyone but surely if you want to post, if you want to ask quetions, you want to make friends, you simply want to show off your car etc etc etc etc etc then if you want that, them why shouldnt you have to be a paid memeber?

I also dont want to have some argument about oh but this is in Sydney yadda yadda, unfotunately i have been to very few actual Toymods gatherings, sure i have been to a few and loved them But remember there is nothing stopping people meeting where ever they want its simple to organise ANYWHERE IS UP TO THOOSE WHO WANT A MEET / EVENT TO GET OFF THERE LAZY ARSES AND ORGANISE SOMETHING !!!

I have organised various meetings / tech nights / guest speakers for the MR2 club (before i was married with children) and it is extreemly time consuming, but its also VERY rewarding so i put it to people if you want something make it happen, there are people in the club that will be more than happy to help you and point you in the right direction. So where the club is based is pretty irrelavant. If there has to be formal meetings in this day and age there must be a way to do it remotely.

I am happy being a paid member even if it was only to post on this formum, if it cost me $100 a year that would be a freaking BARGAIN !

Seriously, having cars as a hobby is not an inexpensive hobby, there is no reason what soever (that i can think off) that you can charge a $50-60, shite even $100 a year to be a member, that would certainly solve any finacial issues plus it would give you the opportunity to provide even more back into the club.

I just dont understand why everyone thinks it should be a free service, its just bloody wrong.

The Forum is an integral part of the club (now, maybe it allways was, i dont know haven been around long enough) Personally i think too many people take it for granted.

I cant put a dollar value on what i have gained from this club, both in friendships, technical support, ability to buy and sell and basically to just enjoy cars, its absolutely priceless.

But what the club CAN do is put a price on what it costs to run and what it would like to do and promote, then simply get that number and divide it by the amount of members it wants on an anual basic and there is you annual membership fee. Sure its a bit more complicated than that but i think you get the idea .

Fianlly anyone that has NOT had anything to do with actually running a club i would suggest / hope you need to be far more sympathetic to the committe members, and instead of putting them down why not ask how you could possilby help ?

I understand not everyone can contribute their time to running the club, probly most cant / simply are not interested, but that doesnt stop them paying for the privilage to be a CLUB MEMEBER.

just my 2c

[CrUZida]

Think of it this way, if ONLY paid members were on this forum, then probably 50% of the information on this forum wouldn't exist. Probably more infact.
I know I probably wouldn't have joined 5 years ago if I had to have paid then.

Its a collaboration of club members and forums members which have made the forum what it is.


The only way you'll get this forum to work for paid members only, is to have a Toymods chapter in every state, which is a lot more work than is currently required.

[Lambolica]

That also goes against what the club is trying to achieve in that it is a place for the greater Toyota community as a whole, not just those who wish to pay.

I think currently 1 Financial member covers 100 forum members and increasing. and 1 committee member covers 1500 forum members and increasing.

[GeneSPIDA]

I agree that because the forum is free, people who would not have otherwise paid-up and seen the immense value of this site, subsequently realise this and join/pay up.

A lot of web sites that want your money first, before you get to "sample" the content, put people off. There are many that don't succeed. Toymods is very successful/valuable, and because of this is probably getting hammered.

Is it possible to activate forum membership status as a form/application is received? I'm guessing that if this could be delegated or shared, with new applications being received by one or more admins, this wouldn't be too difficult. And if, for whatever reason, the persons membership was subsequently rejected, their membership status could then be revoked?

Perhaps a state-by-state admin could help out with this?

That way people joining from a forum point-of-view, get timely action, while the slower paper trail, gift packs, etc. get processed? Just a suggestion.

[1jz68u]

What about a small amount to be a forum member and a larger amount to become a CLUB member.

so say $5p.a to be a forum member and the same to be a club member??

i would think that if 60% of ppl that are only forum members at the moment paid $5 each thats something like $36000 (assuming that the numbers on the login page are correct) a year and im pretty sure that would help keep the costs under control.

and who that comes on here cant spare $5 a year??


just my thoughts

[Hiro]

What about a small amount to be a forum member and a larger amount to become a CLUB member.

so say $5p.a to be a forum member and the same to be a club member??

i would think that if 60% of ppl that are only forum members at the moment paid $5 each thats something like $36000 (assuming that the numbers on the login page are correct) a year and im pretty sure that would help keep the costs under control.

and who that comes on here cant spare $5 a year??


just my thoughts

The number of actual forum users is probably a tenth of the number of people who have signed up - one-post wonders, lurkers and no-hopers are always present.

It does pain me to see the club go through troubled times, I've really come attached to it in the last 12 months or so and am making a concerted effort to get to as many social events, cruises and the like as possible. I'd even consider going to board meetings too if I wasn't a two hour drive away.

And therein lies the problem - it's not a NSW-based club, it's a Sydney-based club. So even people who are within reasonable driving distance for the odd cruise etc are still too far away to make a time commitment to the club. Not that much can be done about it, but still something to consider.

[Cuzzo]

Thought about having some meetings at the cruises?

[GUN METAL]

What about a small amount to be a forum member and a larger amount to become a CLUB member.

so say $5p.a to be a forum member and the same to be a club member??

i would think that if 60% of ppl that are only forum members at the moment paid $5 each thats something like $36000 (assuming that the numbers on the login page are correct) a year and im pretty sure that would help keep the costs under control.

and who that comes on here cant spare $5 a year??


just my thoughts

Yep this is more along the lines of what i am thinking, it doesnt have to COST alot, i love the club and i see no reason why forum members cant make some contribution.

I am not talking about only making acces to paid memebers (like some forums) just anyone who want to post, as said even a small contribution can make the CLUB financial.

Would it be that difficult ? especially considering the information required to become an active forum member at the moment is probly more intensive than most forums and that helped weed out the idiots.

OR


How bout this for a different way of thinking (possibly stupid)

Seperate the FORUM from the CLUB ? Now i am not suggesting this is done but it does put a completly different perspective to it.

Look, i am an old guy and was the member of car clubs before the internet was even invented HAHAHAHAHAHA, Consequently they were smaller and more local based, and for the most part the only communication was at meets or events, maybe the odd phone call maybe a fax (do any of you even knoe what a fax is ? hahahahah)

Since the introduction of the interweb what we have available to us now we couldnt have dreamt of 20 years ago.

When i joined the club i joined , not necessarily the forum, but lets be honest its the forum thats brings us together 24/7, 365 days of the year, any time any place, its increadible, some peice of info you need in the middle of the night, something you just want to share,..........a small fee to be part of that isnt asking the world is it ???????????

Let me make it clear, i dont want to see anyone dissapear from the site, but equally i dont want to see the whole thing dissapear or frament. I would much prefer to looose some people that are not commited for the greater good to our community

Cruzida, i am not saying that the forum shouldnt be open to anyone and everyone, but once you think you like what you see and you want to be a part of it well then pay the $$$$$.

Its like a few different things i have been involved with, no one expects you to pay just to watch from the side lines, but there is usually a price of admission if you want to actually PLAY


Nothing in life is for FREE, it takes peoples time effort and collaboration to run things, why do people expect it to be free ?

Maybe look at advertising if you dont want to pay admission. Look at car magazines for example, most people think nothing of paying near $10 for a magazine and usually buy various types, they are full of advertising, i dont agree with it but if you want the magazine someone has to pay for it.