Breaking a GZE piston or rod

[nick.parker]

Hi Ron,
Is this figure with the OA2087 Blower? I have heard this is good for about 200kW (engine), and looked at replacing my SC14 at one point with one.
Cheers, Nick

[30psi 4agte]

How much boost are you running to get 182 kw ? What are the specs of your engine ?[/QUOTE]


He is running 21 psi ( that is what he said earlier in this thread anyway )


182 with a S/C is Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet !

[RonRob]

Yes, I am running 21 psi and hope to make about 200kw to the wheels once it gets tuned. I am using the .87L blower. I have developed a kit for the 4agze using a blower almost double the size of the .87 Kit will be capable of 225kw+ to the wheels as a bolt on w/o overspinning it. I am running small port gze with stock head and internals. Trd header and Air to Water intercooler with Twinscrew is all thats needed. Link engine management as well for the brains of the operation.

I have spent alot of R&D on the Twinscrew adapated to the 4agze. Not to discourage anyone, but these blowers are so delicate that if set up improperly will result in Blower failure. I have blown several blowers due to poor design. One of the reasons you do not see many people using them as they are not easy to implement. Hopefully there are some out there that will be interested in my bolt on kit because bottom line is if you blow a blower you have essentially paid for the kit when you buy the replacement and then fix the issue.

Thanks for the kind words
Ron

[nick.parker]

Not to discourage anyone, but these blowers are so delicate that if set up improperly will result in Blower failure.

So true. Talking to a guy from Sprintex recently, he said no bypass was a frequently cause, and usually resulted in a failure at cruise on the highway under vacuum condition (lots of heat generation causing intereference). Also the plate onto which you bolt the SC needs to be 'very' flat too. Even too much oil in the gearcase can lead to excessive temperature->expansion->interference issues.

Ron I beleive the OA2087 is a very nice size for a 4AGZE, if you are going to sell the kit, how many people will want the crazy power level? A bigger blower will have lower VE at the same rotational speed. And the speed of a bigger blower will be lower for the same boost, meaning unless you use your setup for that super high power level, the smaller blower will work better.

Cheers, Nick

[RonRob]

You might be correct in that, however the Twinscrew is so efficient, that as long as there is no additional heat at lower revs then I am not too much concerned. However as rpm rises and boost increases the bigger blower should prove to be the best choice. If however I determine otherwise then I will need to inform the community. I just want the 4agze owner to have as much at tap as possible. I want to feel that people are getting a bargain and the best bang for their buck.

Ron

[benjamin]

I am also fitting an OA2087 to my 4agze. I am getting it from a guy down in melbourne who fits them to Mini's and MG's etc

http://www.hi-flow.com/HP1Home.htm

I will be running a MAP Bottom end with a Bigport head and inlet manifold. I have removed the butterflys from the TVIS plate as I am too worried about air leaks if I go without the plate. All standard internals (just balanced) and even standard Compression ratio. To begin with I am only going to run 15psi and see how the standard computer handles it. Then I might up the boost to around 18psi and fit an Adaptronic Standalone Computer.

RonRob. What SC to crank ratio are you running?
21 psi would be around 2:1 with the 2087?
Are you still using the standard injectors? If not, what power level did you need to change them?

Do you have a link to any info on your car?

[30psi 4agte]

The TVIS plate can be removed but you will need to weld in between the valley of the inlet manifold to beef it up a bit.

I did run my manifold without weld for quite some time but on high boost the gasket was prone to blow out or leak!

I personally HATE the fuc@n plate and would remove it if it is possible!! Although it may work in your favour for clearence of the S/C ??

[nick.parker]

Hi,
I use a bigport n/a inlet manifold (because bigport is stock on the AW11) and no TVIS plate and the leakage is next to nothing. Yes it is not a 100% perfect seal and I will fix it one day, but it wont affect performance at all, doesn't even leak enough at idle to have any effectl. I used a new metal manifold gasket when I put it on.

Benjamin, why not just use a small port inlet and have zero issue with this TVIS crap?

It seems everyone is sucked in by bigger hole = more air - its tiring to read. Of course a bigger hole can fit more air for a given pressure drop. BUT I am dying to see somebody prove that the bigger bigport 'holes' on a 4AG are better for a street driven car. Maybe it will be me, since I intend to try a smallport head on my car later on this year. I haven't found anyone who's done a back to back comparison yet, except for n/a 4AGE where it seem almost unanimous that the smallport is better.

Look at RonRobs 182kW, look at Angry4AG on CLUB4AG with 450rwhp and smallport gear. Rather than get 2% extra at the top end I'd go for a better drivability (more low end torque) where the car will be used 98% of the time.

RonRob what C/R are you running?

Cheers, Nick

[30psi 4agte]

Hi,
I use a bigport n/a inlet manifold (because bigport is stock on the AW11) and no TVIS plate and the leakage is next to nothing. Yes it is not a 100% perfect seal and I will fix it one day, but it wont affect performance at all, doesn't even leak enough at idle to have any effectl. I used a new metal manifold gasket when I put it on.

Yeah nick your spot on my air leak was barely even noticeable i only picked it cos there was a bit of a fuel/oily build up on the injector where it had been blowing out of the port!


I spun out that Wil (angry 4ag) was using a small port head when i spoke to him !!!
So it is deff able to be done! If i remember correctly he did mention going to a big port though.

[RonRob]

I think that the small port gze manifold is better then the n/a manifold for s/c. Now of course I could be proven wrong, but short runners is what the s/c likes. Compression is stock 8:9 on the small port. Spinning it at max to get 21psi, hence the reason for the bigger blower. Spin it slower and make more power. Perhaps the .87L s/c is ideal a 1.6 or 1.8 n/a, but since our cars can handle boost, the bigger blower in my opinion is better suited for the goals of 4agze owners. For anyone attempting to go Twinscrew and have everything fabbed, I would say the .87L blower is going to be much more space and mounting friendly. The Bigger Blower is much more of a beast. Almost as big as the valve covers! Testing on this blower will be done soon.

Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
Ron

[kingmick]

I think that the small port gze manifold is better then the n/a manifold for s/c. Now of course I could be proven wrong, but short runners is what the s/c likes. Compression is stock 8:9 on the small port. Spinning it at max to get 21psi, hence the reason for the bigger blower. Spin it slower and make more power. Perhaps the .87L s/c is ideal a 1.6 or 1.8 n/a, but since our cars can handle boost, the bigger blower in my opinion is better suited for the goals of 4agze owners. For anyone attempting to go Twinscrew and have everything fabbed, I would say the .87L blower is going to be much more space and mounting friendly. The Bigger Blower is much more of a beast. Almost as big as the valve covers! Testing on this blower will be done soon.

Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
Ron

exept for the short runners on one side! its a pretty average manifold!

[benjamin]

Benjamin, how much does Hi-Flow charge for their 2087?
Ron

Retail, they are charging AU$2950 plus GST (10%) so that makes it AU$3245.

I am getting it through my brothers workshop though, so I might be getting a better deal.

[RonRob]

Retail, they are charging AU$2950 plus GST (10%) so that makes it AU$3245.

I am getting it through my brothers workshop though, so I might be getting a better deal.

Benjamin,
Just so you know, I am doing my first run of 5 for the Aw11. Price is 3650Aus, while the Corollas should be slightly less as piping from outlet of s/c to intercooler will need to be made. Piping from Throttle body to afm will need to be made unless you are map based in which a filter can go on the end of the blower. I can do the same for the 2087 blower if that is prefered.
Kit details:

Big Blower with self contained oil system (400hp capable)
Big Blower bracket
Big Blower plumbing and piping to stock intercooler and stock afm (Only Aw11)
New spring loaded tensioner and bracket relocation
Aluminum 6 rib crank pulley
Aluminum 6 rib water pump pulley
Performance bypass valve
Performance throttle body
Belts and hardware.


5 rib pulley configuration that our 4agze uses will cause slipage. Cogged is an option but very expensive. I am running cogged on the 2087.

Ron

[nick.parker]

Hi RonRob,
I take it the 6th rib is closer to the block, so as to create no hassle with ALT or A/C drive? I would be interested to see if your setup could work with the intake manifold and intercooler setup I have. Does your SC kit rely on using the stock SC inlet manifold? I imagine others may want to use the n/a inlet manifold.

During your tuning, have you looked at exhaust temps on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Or rather do you know what degree of an imbalance in airflow between cylinders (with stock ZE manifold)? On most engines where I work (we make EMSs for OEMs and have dozens of dyno test cells/rooms) there is always a few percent here and there difference in cylinder mapping and thats on engines that probably have better design manifolds than the 4AGZE.

Incidently for an expirement I plan on fitting 4 thermocouples to my exhaust manifold soon.

Cheers, Nick

[benjamin]

Benjamin,
Just so you know, I am doing my first run of 5 for the Aw11. Price is 3650Aus, while the Corollas should be slightly less as piping from outlet of s/c to intercooler will need to be made. Piping from Throttle body to afm will need to be made unless you are map based in which a filter can go on the end of the blower. I can do the same for the 2087 blower if that is prefered.
Kit details:

Big Blower with self contained oil system (400hp capable)
Big Blower bracket
Big Blower plumbing and piping to stock intercooler and stock afm (Only Aw11)
New spring loaded tensioner and bracket relocation
Aluminum 6 rib crank pulley
Aluminum 6 rib water pump pulley
Performance bypass valve
Performance throttle body
Belts and hardware.


5 rib pulley configuration that our 4agze uses will cause slipage. Cogged is an option but very expensive. I am running cogged on the 2087.

Ron

Thank you very much for the offer. I found your Posts in regard to your MR2 on the MROC forums and I am very impressed. 244bhp from a 1.6 is absolutely incredible!!!

But I am going to try and mount my supercharger differently to the way you have ( I am in no way saying yours is bad but there are a few things I would like to try differently on my car when I fit it ) I will also be using a Water to Air intercooler and I will probably be using a throttle body from a Commodore or Falcon.

I have been given an exact price of AU$3521 including GST for the 2087 supercharger, 1.5" bypass valve, pulley and lubrication kit.