1uz wet sump - sump mods/windage/scraper/traps etc

[ed]

nope, thats just 6sec for a 3/4 full sump to have the oil slosh away from the centre enough to expose the edge of the pickup zone

in/out flow not accounted for

compare that time to a std 3/4 full pan simply tilted 45deg

[ed]

how is this stacking up financially compared to a dry sump with scavenge only that feeds the factory oil pump?

much cheaper at present, but equally, its still nowhere near as good as a dry sump would be either

[The Real Roadrunner]

How many track day daily drivers does Turn 1 @ EC claim?

On what tires? and with how many G's?

a camry on road tires pulling .75G's? could potentially surge enough but it would be RPM dependent as to wether it would lock up or not.


Built engine with tighter clearances using slicks and pulling 1.2-1.4Gs is alot more likely to shit itself.

[Celica RA45]

im pulling 1.2 to 1.4 Gs around the island with my wet sump on club car tyres and i dont get any surge and i have tried to help him ,he still needs to drop the oil pick up lower and also modify the oil pick upwhere it sucks and put a riser on the dip stick hole to stop slosh also needs to run 2 vents off the rocker cover so he wont fill catch can up the 3sge has 1 for fresh air and 1 for pvc but block this up and it fills the surge tank run 2 and no problems and also with a higher comp

ps im going to get cained for this but who cares and i run tight clearences 1.8 thou bigends and 2.2 on the mains

[JustenGT8]

On what tires? and with how many G's?

a camry on road tires pulling .75G's? could potentially surge enough but it would be RPM dependent as to wether it would lock up or not.


Built engine with tighter clearances using slicks and pulling 1.2-1.4Gs is alot more likely to shit itself.

Just a rough number...daily driver implies moderate mods and track day implies decent tyres.

Just wanting an idea whether it's worth showing up or whether it's a guaranteed engine failure?

[The Real Roadrunner]

Ive seen a couple of engine failures there that was oil system related but the exact cause i never really found out about.

If your not having probs at wakefield i don't see a reason why you couldn't run at EC but its still something to keep in your mind and run a seperate oil pressure light with a switch pressure of say 35psi just so you know if its having dramas.

the oil light flickered in my corrolla but being a stock engine i figured it wouldn't lock up straight away so i disconected the pressure switch to avoid any crap myself moments halfway thru turn 1.

Glenn, i personally don't agree with running the pickup 2mm off the pan and see no good reason to do it, i personally always run an 8-12mm gap so the oil chooses to flow under the pickup rather than round it, if also helps if you encounter a few ripplestrips which my cars generally do.

[The Real Roadrunner]

how is this stacking up financially compared to a dry sump with scavenge only that feeds the factory oil pump?

That would depend on if you were paying others to do the R&D for you or if your doing it yourself. with the time and effort spent going thru all this you could probly have a 3 stage scavenge pump on there with an oil/air seperator style tank and a feed back into the block for similar $$$, but thats only if you did it once at the start.

by the time you add up the catchcan + fittings + lines + accusump + sump design + labour to do it all the cost would be fairly high with this exercise.

but then again Ed doesn't pay retail nor does he like paying for stuff he can do himself (kinda )

Cheers
Linden

[JustenGT8]

Ive seen a couple of engine failures there that was oil system related but the exact cause i never really found out about.

If your not having probs at wakefield i don't see a reason why you couldn't run at EC but its still something to keep in your mind and run a seperate oil pressure light with a switch pressure of say 35psi just so you know if its having dramas.

The oil pressure guage does some disturbing things at WP but given it's hung together for a few years now my baffled sump is apparently just good enough. A sustained 6 seconds of high gee's might just tip it over the edge?

A dry sump is on the drawing board so i might have to leave EC for a bit longer yet

[Celica RA45]

how much oil does the 1uz hold ,is it anything like 5.5 litres with oil filter like 3sge ,also does it have 2 oil gallerys 1 for vvti and 1 for the back of cams
also do the head gaskets have a oil restricter built into gasket etc
linden your sump must sit low if you are going over ripple strips at race tracks
the 1uz oil pick doesnt look good you could also modify the pick up .there are plenty of ways to modify and make wet sumps work
i have a 3sge beams here with a 2s sump that runs around the island and does 1.44 on slicks and is still std sump with a few modify cations and works fine
i think you will have to sit back and have a proper look and see where you can fix it up 2 stop the surge
its not doctors science
rocket

[ed]

well, no breaking news other than its still surging...

most details here:
http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/vi...7&t=790&p=8188

but heres the latest:
i dropped the sump again today and noted a couple of possible issues..

firstly - the oil pickup 'mouth' is about 105mm in dia... its HUGE. now i checked the clearances, and even though its only 5-6mm off the floor, it does stretch from one side of the central bowl area, to the other. (*note - this is a different pickup style to the one in the last engine, though still just athe oem pickup)

its conceivable that when the oil does move quickly around in the central bowl, that one edge of this pickup can 'just' become uncovered. its not helped by the possible second issue outlined below either...

... the second issue being that with oil (not water) in the pan, the trapdoors seal flush so well, that a degree of surface tension 'suction' needs to be overcome for the doors to release from their closed position against the divider wall to swing open. with the 50w oil in there, the doors do actually 'suck down' onto the bowl wall quite tightly and it takes a little bit of momentum/forrce to open them. sure, they do open ok, and they move very very freely, but not without a bit of delay in response to the oil motion...

so those two things combined, its possible that as oil moves quickly around the central bowl, theres a delay in fresh oil moving in from the wings through the trap doors, and a small dry spot can 'just' devellop under the very peripheral lip of the oil pickup

so!

ive bent a small deflection into the bowl wall so that the mating surface of the trap door is no longer dead flush, and the oil surface tension has a focal area to 'peel away' from. (like lifting the very edge of a suction cap). that seems to have made the trapdoor 'beak-away' much more freely, though it does allow a small amount of back-leakage also, certainly not heaps.

im also going to try closing down the face of the pickup, such that it can only draw oil up from a smaller central zone about 60mm wide (though nearly the whole original mesh area will still be available for straining the oil). this 20mm will make the likelyhood of uncovering the edge of the pickup zone far less likely.

fingers crossed these two things together work to starve off this goddamn surge!

[allencr]

Thanks, I love these posts & the tremendous craftsmanship effort skill & talent that goes into a piece, sorry it doesn't work better then stock.
'mission accomplished'

[thechuckster]

damn you evil oil surge!?!!

[JP]

Hi Ed,

Here's a pic of the oil pickup used on the later 1zzfe engines, looks like this could be a decent way to reduce the actual pickup area of your 1uz pickup..

http://www.purcellperformance.com/Tech/1zz_pickup.jpg

[ed]

wel,, first impressions are we mighthave fixed the surge...

we made a 100mm dia steel disc, cut a 57mm hole in it, coned it slightly in the press, and voila!

[jazae86]

I have been looking at baffling my 4AG sump. Admitantly it is more narrow in width that the 1UZ sump. After many hours of humming an arrhing, I have come to the conclusion that the best option is to slightly improve the factory design where they have simplified the construction method to reduce costs.

To start with, in the 4AG the standard baffle plate sits at the 'low' mark on the dipstick, so the oil level at 'H' should always be about 1" above the baffle plate. By sealing the baffle plate completly around the endges to stop the oil moving around the outside of the baffle plate. Under cornering, loading, all the oil can try and move sideways/back/forward, but the oil HAS to sit in a line from the edge of the baffle plate, of which if the pick up is central to the hole, is 45deg (assuming diameter is 2x height). Making the hole in the baffle plate smaller improves this efficiency. Narrowing the hole by attaching horizontal wings to pick-up would be the choice in the plane of lowest G load

This nullifies any deflectors you have below the baffle plate, as this section is always 'full' of oil.

This may be of use for the 1UZ and the last picture shows that the pick-up sits below this baffle plate, I just don't know if the oil sits above the baffle plate at normal usage level.

Also if people can see fault in my thoughts, please correct me.