S14 ball joint into AE86/KE70 LCA (help me out, i'm a newb ;) )

**oldcorollas** · 09-03-2006, 09:42 PM

ok,
so people have done S13 into AE86 before.

why not S14? calipers are lighter, discs are heavier.

S14 ball joint is different taper to S13, but S14 ball joints are available aftermarket, and fit into S13 LCA's
S14 is 5 stud = S14 easier to convert to larger discs later? (S15, skyline etc = 5 stud)

am i missing somehting vital here?

tie rod ends perhaps?

i've looked at simon-AE86's article, and also a bit by ImprovedAE86...

seems silly to go to an S13 strut and then modify for the larger brakes and lighter calipers....

**roadsailing** · 09-03-2006, 10:54 PM

i'd imagine it is because people imaging that S13 stuff is cheap as chips.

i dunno about bigger discs being better, i have a few odds and ends lying around, and i'm planning on using S13 spindles with CA18DET discs and calipers, partly because i could get them and partly because they are light compared to the SR20DET discs. if i run out of brakes, i can bolt on anything to get more.

**oldcorollas** · 09-03-2006, 11:32 PM

well, bigger discs = more heat sink, and if you are planning for circuit, then a certain amount is good... ..

hmm, i saw that the 4 bolt S14 hubs go onto S13 spindles, allowing use of larger disc etc but...

hmm.. i would prefer 5 bolt

according to here http://www.sr20tuning.com/brakes.html
S13 CA18DET are 250x18
S13 SR20DET are 280x22
S14 SR20DET are 280x30 (and R32GTS-T and Z32 300ZX)

imho, 250 is a bit small... someone suggested that 260x30 would be a minimum for my cars weight at certain tracks.... maybe 280x22 would be ok...

however, caliper weights...
S13 is sliding caliper (said to be similar weight to S14 4 pot) (cast iron),
S14 is 4 pot but cast iron (4.8kg),
Z32 (30mm disc) is alloy and weighs less (3.6kg) (R33 GTR caliper is 3.8kg)

for discs
250x18 = DBA918 = 4.5kg (S13)
280x22 = DBA919 = 6.8kg (S13)
280x30 = DBA909 = 6.9kg (S14)

so given that,
a Z32 caliper + S14 disc = 10.5kg
S14 caliper + S14 disc = 11.7kg
big S13 disc + caliper = 11.6kg
small S13 disc + caliper ~~ 9.3kg

but for the extra 1.2kg, you get a lot more mass in the rotor itself (2.4kg).....

given that a set of tyres and rims will weigh in around 15kg or so... 25.5kg vs 24.3kg is not ahuge difference in unsprung weight.... not including the spindles and shocks either

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(edit:to noob's, this is called doing some research for yourself to contribute to your own thread

)

280x22 vs 280x30.. big difference in size.. but almost no difference in weight!!

**Dimitri** · 09-03-2006, 11:51 PM

is this hypothetical? or are you going to do it? for a ke/ae 4 stud is more desireable for wheel selection.

if you went s14 would you not just use the s14 LCA? i am pretty sure the toyota rack end will still screw into the tie rod.

apart from the 5 stud being un desireable to your average corolla punter, its just price and availability of the hardware that stops people considering the later stuff. here especially s14 gear isnt cheap.

**Hen** · 10-03-2006, 12:10 AM

Bear in mind that 5 bolt S14 hubs, discs and calipers bolt onto S13 struts and steering arms. I have seen it done, and this is how all the S13 guys do the 4pot upgrade.

Hen

**oldcorollas** · 10-03-2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dimitri

is this hypothetical? or are you going to do it? for a ke/ae 4 stud is more desireable for wheel selection
if you went s14 would you not just use the s14 LCA? i am pretty sure the toyota rack end will still screw into the tie rod.
apart from the 5 stud being un desireable to your average corolla punter, its just price and availability of the hardware that stops people considering the later stuff. here especially s14 gear isnt cheap.

well, obviously it's hypothetical until i do actually do it.
why is 4 stud more desirable for wheel selection? if i recal MrShin has 5 studs on his KE70 with no issues..... but for me it's the whole package.. how many 4 stud rims will fit without spacers around a 4 pot caliper?

hmm, S14 LCA is longer than AE86/AE70 no? i will already have enough track and camber and more is out of the question.

ahh, well thankfully i am not your average corolla punter, and this should be no average corolla...

ahh, i didn't realise the S14 was that much harder to get..

thanks Hen, if all the bits are transferable, and there is not much weight difference betwen the S13 and S14 spindles, then i guess there is not much reason to go to the S14 gear then?

**Dimitri** · 10-03-2006, 12:51 AM

you can re drill s13 hubs to make them 5 stud. then use any cheap r32 disc/caliper set up. we just did this on paulies car.

datsun (by that i mean s13) dudes pay big cash for s14 gear.

wheel slection, well low offset 14/15s 4 stud is easier. if its a monster, ie 16/17"'s!? then thats differant.

i have a friend who has s13 gear in his 86. he uses the s13 lca too. massively wide. too much camber, but thats how he did it.

you should be able to get s13 basically free(or completely). so its not really a waste to start with basic s13 parts.

**oldcorollas** · 10-03-2006, 01:32 AM

ahh k, i didn't realise S13 vs S14 are so different in cost...

4 stud S14 bits here are cheap.. quick look on yahoo... S14 4 stud, spindle + hub = $30.
expensive S14 LCA + spindle + 5 stud hubs = $350...

but in between are about $150-200 for a pair of spindles and hubs and sometimes discs and calipers...

well.. 15's are needed for the 280mm discs, so it's 15's or at max, 16's....
hmmmm.......

seems easier to go for a wole datto strut than go for a toyota strut (like RA40/60/corona) and then mod the discs and calipers to suit... will also make enginer happier methinks...

thanks for your help