Ke10/20 + Sr20 = ???

[oldcorollas]

how does he justify the weight of a KE20 to be 800kg?
KE30 no problem, KE20 is still too light to be legal, regardless if you have eng cert or not?

[NeDiC]

hey mate, it cant be done. I intitially wanted to put a sr20 into a ke20 however due to legality issues i went for the ke30. The next best option in my opinion would be the CA18. And like it was said earlier its got nothing to do with the wieght of the car on the weigh bridge as there is a gross weight of the car on record. But in saying that anything can be done, its just whether you dont get mind getting hassled all the time by police.

[charade_16v]

how does he justify the weight of a KE20 to be 800kg?
KE30 no problem, KE20 is still too light to be legal, regardless if you have eng cert or not?

Wrong.
I spoke to John a while ago about this.
he said it's possible to use the "Heaviest Variant" of the model (ie. a heavier version of the KE20).
Somewhere there must be a model he's classifying it under...

there are plenty of these ke20's engineered in NSW.

MM

[oldcorollas]

interesting. would love to find where he is getting this loophole??
the rules usually state the heaviest variant of the sedan version only, . ie, KE25 also uses KE20 weight
this is 760kg. still 40kg shy of that required for SR20...
the KE20 sedan with 3K motor (3K-B = heaviest?) will be the heaviest model. i don7t think he could use the 4 door weight as it was never sold in australia at all.

reading from the NCOP, which is basically identical to the curretn NSW rules, it says

the weigth of the vehicle referred to in the table is the original (unmodified) TARE weight of the model vehicle fitted with the largest engine available for the model but without optional accessories (air conditioning, towbars etc). the weight of the vehicle whether it is a sedan, station wagon, utility etc, should be based on the heaviest sedan version of the model (not station wagon version).

(their bolding)
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...s_3Feb2006.pdf

maybe in times past, like 10-15 years ago, it could have been done, but the current law does not allow it.

here is current wording
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf

*'original weight' is the original (unmodified) 'tare weight' of the sedan version of the model vehicle fitted with the largest engine available for the model but without optional accessories such as air conditioning and tow bar.
*Vehicles with engines of greater capacity that that provided in the table will not be aceptable for registration as a modified production vehicle

the problem is, that the COPfLVM has the KE20 weight listed specifically on their table of example weights... i can7t see how he can LEGALLY justify it when it is stated in black and white

but it would be great if it is possible.. then again.. there sure aint no 800kg KE10's

edit: i don7t have my COP book with me to check that 760 weight, but there is a copy at homebush library if no-one else has one...

edit2: i just noticed in the NCOP it says as example weight:
70 corolla, 746kg, NA= 2238cc, FI= 1865
77 celica, 1067kg, NA=4268cc (woot, 1UZ!), FI= 2934cc

now compare to this thread..
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=12388

some guy reckons that he can go up to 2.2L with turbo? maybe they are getting confused,.
apparently john passed one (in that thread), BUT, that does NOT make it legal... it just makes it more likely for him, and all the cars he has engineered, to get audited.. (tho he is meant to be a fairly straight up guy)
SR20DE is fine, DET is supposedly not ok... based on RTA weight

but i will ring him if i can find his number

[oldcorollas]

just spoke to John at consulmotive (nice bloke!)
he said basically they are very close to the limits, around 5-10kg under (??), but if the entire car is done safely and properly, (and i guess if the owner is not an idiot?) then he is prepared to take on the liability of certifying the car.. said he has only done 1 or 2 of them so far..

so it IS under... but he is using his discretion, and taking on the liability, to be able to certify them if they are done completely properly...

there ya go. i thought they were further under the limit than that? (he said if it was like 50kg short, then there would be no chance)

[charade_16v]

Wow, I didn't know that Engineers could use such discression.
That makes sense, i guess if it came to the crunch, he would have to stand up in court and give his reasoning as to why he beleives this conversion to be safe.

It's good to know engineers can use discression, as we all know that some cars may come within the legal guidelines, but are still more unsafe then other uncertified cars on the road. All comes down to the driver and how the car is built (Jerry Springer moment..."Jerry's thoughts" for those who watch it).

a guy at my work was showing me some pics of his Morris 1100 with 350chev in it, was Kermit green with nsw TUFNUF plates....with engineers papers and all!...haha "back in the day" as they say, but those days are long over.

MM

[oldcorollas]

yah, i had heard of engineers applying to RTA for special permission for some projects, but you wouldn't want to go with a dodgy engineer to do that.
perhaps that is what he does? anyway, good to know thanks for the lead

it also means that KE10 is a definite no-go for 2L turbo, as it is at least 50kg lighter on paper

[Bananaman]

To get the CA in mine we had to cut the brackets that bolt from the block to the bellhousing, to stop it makign sweet love with the steering as you turn, and drop the swaybar while fitting. This puts the shifter further back to the point of cutting out some of that crossmember that runs across the floor. Figured i'd rather this than go down the path of custom swaybars etc, and further back the better..

[Bananaman]

Here's one i prepared earlier..

[jono]

my mate just got his KE20 engineered last week with a 12A rotary...pretty sure the engineer must have used his discretion on that one.

[oldcorollas]

reputable engineer or....

any chance you can ask what weight the gingerbeer used for the calc?

the concern is, that even if the engineer uses their discretion, and takes on the liability,,, to the letter of the law, they are illegal.. so if you get to court, then it might become a problem.. hopefully it never gets to that, but you never know.
the other problem is that if a cop knows a particular conversion is not black and white legal, then that may cause hassle as well...

still, i'm all for safe use of discretion on well built cars without idiot drivers

edit: for the SR20 to be 5-10kg of, he must be using 790-795kg..

for the 12A, it is the same (2400/3, 2000/2.5)... so i wonder where this dry weight 790kg KE20 is?

[jono]

this particular engineer has become pretty opportunistic and still owes me $250 for electrical work i did for him

[oldcorollas]

ahh, just abotu to lose his licence huh?