Ceramic coating exhaust ports

[thechuckster]

When i got my 18rte built by Swift Engines they were doing a range of interior coating on cyl heads, ports, valves, pistons, turbine housings etc. Can't quite remember the business that they sent it thru - was either Performance Coatings or HPC.

You could give Peter Herriman (spell?) a ring at Swift to get the name of the coatings place they use.

[JP]

Probably was these guys: http://www.competitioncoatings.com.au/index.html

Same address as Swift Engines

[TERRA Operative]

Hmmm, competition coatings is just around the corner... Might drop by and have a chat.

[thechuckster]

Thanks JP, that was the name.

[JP]

FWIW I'm getting a couple of my turbo manifolds coated by Competition Coatings at the moment, for the black extreme coating the bill is $220ea + GST, 4cyl steam pipe manifolds.

[thechuckster]

JP - is that both sides coated or just the exterior? Am considering coating the dump pipe on the GT4 and price would be similar or less.

[JP]

both manifolds look to have been done inside and out. I'm not sure exactly how they apply the coating but it looks to be consistent even in the very difficult to reach spots

http://users.tpg.com.au/adsl0uxv/20V/manifolds_1.jpg

[-Totenkopf-]

I've had competition coatings do some stuff for me, exhaust mani, turbine housing and down pipe. I had a couple of bits flake off my downpipe, im not sure if it my own fault or theres but they recoated it for free. When I first got the car running I forgot to disable ignition clamp and was running static 10 degrees of time. Stuff got HOT, very hot and I had a small section of exhaust wrap around this area which basically melted the fibreglass (turned it into liquid/crusty mess). Where this was touching was where the coating started to lift. Quality appeared good though, compared to other places where I've got coating done.

Oh, swift engines and competition coatings are one and the same place.

[MS112]

Interesting. The way it is being described in this thread, you are literally coating the non-contacting surfaces with ceramic, and that the cylinder walls and piston are not coated with ceramic.

According to this site at least.

You would really only coat the engine internals to try and improve the thermal efficiency, not the power of the engine. *shrugs*

[thechuckster]

increased combustion gas temps means more gas pressure at the turbine leading to more boost (e.g. power). So not a direct relationship but a contributory one.

fwiw: Swift built my engine a while ago - is still running despite lots of neglect and abuse. They know their stuff when it comes to race engines.

[oldcorollas]

Interesting. The way it is being described in this thread, you are literally coating the non-contacting surfaces with ceramic, and that the cylinder walls and piston are not coated with ceramic.

According to this site at least.

You would really only coat the engine internals to try and improve the thermal efficiency, not the power of the engine. *shrugs*

there are currently no aftermarket available ceramic coatings that would be suitable for cylinder liners to seal on piston rings.

also, a significant amount (most?) of heat lost from the piston, goes through the rings and into the cylinder liner, so for ring/piston longevity, it needs that heat sink.

increase in thermal efficiency = increase in power for the same amount of fuel. usually.

[MS112]

increased combustion gas temps means more gas pressure at the turbine leading to more boost (e.g. power). So not a direct relationship but a contributory one.

and

increase in thermal efficiency = increase in power for the same amount of fuel. usually.

I was hesitant to make that correlation. As it stands, it would definitely lower fuel consumption, but I could not definitely say it would result in increased power. I had the opinion that you are doing the same amount of work for less fuel, thus the power of an engine did not necessarily change. However I did not consider that the peak power of the engine may change.

There was a report investigating the application of ceramic lining to a turbo-charged directed injection diesel, which showed a 3 to 5% improvement in efficiency after the treatment. It did not specify how it affected power.

also, a significant amount (most?) of heat lost from the piston, goes through the rings and into the cylinder liner, so for ring/piston longevity, it needs that heat sink.

There is also the issue that if one were to attempt to stop heat loss via the cylinder walls in order to improve combustion temperature, then oil begins to pyrolise and friction increases.

So to go that route, you would have to run with no oil at all. At least, I am not aware of an oil that would withstand the higher temperatures. The idea of running without oil is not impossible; higher machining tolerances, a form of dry lubricant and also taller pistons would be required to make sure the heat from combustion does not bugger the rings. One word comes to mind however: expensive

[oldcorollas]

well. if you coat the top of the piston with a ceramic heat barrier, then less heat into rings and less into oil etc...
if you coat combustion chamber, then less heat into coolant.
if you coat exhaust ports, then less heat into coolant.

someone mentioned that the chambers etc get carboned up quickly?
well, as long as the ceramic is still there, it is still giving the benefit of decreasing heat loss from the gas in the chamber, to the coolant.

there are not many times where decreasing efficiency results in increased power.
the issues to be considered are if the reduced heat loss from the combustion chamber etc, will make the fuel burn faster or more violently etc.. and then it becomes an adventure in tuning..

i am not sure why people find this confusing sometimes... you just need to realise where the heat comes from, where it goes, and if it is good to keep it there or not..