How to make Power Windows work without ignition ON ?

[o_man_ra23]

Very hard, any thief who would want to spend the time and work that hard to BEND the door and stick a metal ruler through the cabin and somehow poke the window switches might aswell get a job and earn money for his car.

Actually there are people just like the ones you describe, except they aren't theives. They actually work for the NRMA, RACQ, RACV etc, and they get you into your car when you lock your keys in. Bending the door frame isn't all that hard, and as mentioned it doesn't leave any marks.

Powering the relay when the alarm is off isn't a bad idea, and the little power that a relay uses, it would be fine for a reasonably long while. If you were going away on holidays for an extended period though, best to either leave the alarm on, or expect a flat battery when you get back.

Oh, and although it is electrically speaking not a difficult task, it is a lot of pulling your dash apart, and you have then hacked your wiring loom, which makes the car that much more difficult to sell if you ever intend on doing that.

[petergoudie]

There's a safety issue here. I don't know how old your car is but several years back there were changes to the ADR's or national construction rules governing power windows. There were instances in the US & I think here here in Australia of persons being strangled (I think children) or caught in power windows. The rules were amended to include max lift torques or load feedback to stop the window if something is caught in them

Having the window wired via the key at least means someone might be in the driver's seat or someone with some skill in the immediate vicinity. In your case, you wouldn't want some child playing in your car and the window goes up with their head in it. Even if it did not strangle them they could be stuck in a closed garage and you come back a few days later and they are dead from starvation.

My Cressida has a two step close sequence on the sunroof with a two or more second delay to give you time to get your hand out of the way if it's there.

Think carefully about the consequences of what you might do.

[chaRwie]

some imported toyotas actually have a keyhole function

from the outside, turn the key left or right for 3-5secs and the window goes up

[Z2TT]

Mos I've got a Soarer Z20 and my door frame seems very hard to bend. On the other cars in the garage like the Pulsar and Corolla it seems much easier. The issue here is not of a theif getting in, because face it a theif is most likely going to smash my window and get the hell out of there as soon as he can, not screw around bending the doorframe and sticking something to get down to my power window switches, in the first place he wont even know that my power windows always work, he would assume they only operate on ignition like all other cars. I could have a switch that switches from Always on to Ignition powered that I could use when I lock my car up.

As for children, I don't have any children.

[Kyosho]

Mos I've got a Soarer Z20 and my door frame seems very hard to bend. On the other cars in the garage like the Pulsar and Corolla it seems much easier. The issue here is not of a theif getting in, because face it a theif is most likely going to smash my window and get the hell out of there as soon as he can, not screw around bending the doorframe and sticking something to get down to my power window switches, in the first place he wont even know that my power windows always work, he would assume they only operate on ignition like all other cars. I could have a switch that switches from Always on to Ignition powered that I could use when I lock my car up.

As for children, I don't have any children.

Actually, you'd be surprised.

R32/33 and 34 Skylines have a passenger door lock switch on the drivers side. This is permanently on. This is how so many Skylines get knocked off, without a broken window or popped lock.

It is a very common mode of entry, as when the door is out, they can a) access windows switches, b) unlock the door.
Which, is a very good method if the thief intends to steal the car and not draw attention to it.

[Z2TT]

Ah yeah if its known on skylines many thieves would go for them then.
As for bending the doorframe on Z20's, its not as easy as other cars, you have to see the car then you'll know.

Good thing you told me this about the Skylines, as the R33 may be my next car +rep

[o_man_ra23]

You don't need to move the frame far... only enough to get a thin tool in. It isn't hard to make a tool which will bend when inside the car either, so don't fob that off.

Also, it's not whether you have children or not, it is whether somebody likely to purchase the vehicle should you put it up for sale has children. The argument that you will never sell the car does not work here, and won't stand up if it comes under scrutiny from either an engineer, or one of our blue uniformed inhabitants.

[Z2TT]

When I do sell the car I will just bring it back to how it was originally.
As for police I'm prepared to risk that.

[TERRA Operative]

Having the windows activated when the alarm is off is an awesome idea.
I might wire that into my spare loom before it goes into the car...

[Mos]

Oh, and although it is electrically speaking not a difficult task, it is a lot of pulling your dash apart, and you have then hacked your wiring loom, which makes the car that much more difficult to sell if you ever intend on doing that.

This is easier than you suggest. The relay is in one of the kick panels - don't have to touch the dash at all. And you don't have to hack any wiring either if you are creative with your additions.

My Cressida has a two step close sequence on the sunroof with a two or more second delay to give you time to get your hand out of the way if it's there.

Interestingly, and slightly off topic, the IS200 has almost the identical sunroof setup, except the sunroof does not auto close - you have to keep the button pressed in - in this case I guess the ADRs got more conservative. I have an MX83 sunroof ecu that I was intending on installing into the IS200 to regain the auto close function.
BTW, the MX83 driver's power window has auto-up as well, but you need to add a diode and cut away a part of the switch to enable it.

R32/33 and 34 Skylines have a passenger door lock switch on the drivers side. This is permanently on.

On (most) toyotas, if the doors are locked using the remote or the key, the door switch is disabled.

Having the windows activated when the alarm is off is an awesome idea.

Thank you

Mos.

[Kyosho]

Cars with missing auto up? WTF?
It's a 1989 modelish car, and you're saying ADRs forced it to be removed? Yet my 94 Skyrine has it, and my Dads 2000 Model VT has it, and the VE SS (2007 model) that I test drove had it!

[petergoudie]

Kyosho, you are getting slighly mixed up. The later cars have force sensitive cut outs that I think are basically a current limiter but could be a clutch - they therefore can have these other features. Also, as old as they are, if you look at a cressida workshop manual there was a myriad of options that were never available in Australia including air suspension as per Lexus..

Mos, I could be wrong, I don't think the ADRs cover sunroofs because nobody thought about it at the time. The emphasis was on windows after some accidents.

[LeeRoy]

Mos I've got a Soarer Z20 and my door frame seems very hard to bend. On the other cars in the garage like the Pulsar and Corolla it seems much easier.

While that is true do you think if someone goes to break into your car theyre going to be alone? How many robberies at bank/pubs/etc are done by one person? Now although im sure they happen, the chance of there only being a single person is quite slim.

The issue here is not of a theif getting in, because face it a theif is most likely going to smash my window and get the hell out of there as soon as he can, not screw around bending the doorframe and sticking something to get down to my power window switches.

Smashing a window is noisy, bending a door frame is not.

Besides, if someone does see you then youve effectively given them the keys to the car.

Seeing as your being quite naive with everyones informative and helpful suggestions i also suggest you leave your wheel locknuts in the center console, your clublock unlocked on the passenger footwell, and a spare key to your house under your door mat.

Best of luck,
Leigh

[Z2TT]

Most thieves dont take notice of things like my key being inserted while i'm opening the window, and it is very unlikely that they will notice it while im opening my window, unless there right next to me, looking at my key slot.

I'll also have other security measures in place, such as an alarm, and kill switch, so if I happen to "give them my keys" they wont be able to make away with the car that easily.

I've taken into consideration everything everybody has said in this thread, and I will still go ahead. I should have some sort of hidden switch that changes from Always on to Ignition powered, example for when I leave the car.