Engineering and engine changes in Victoria

[hosking1991]

how would my ra40 go for blueslip if i had my 18rg in it would it possibly pass or am i better off keeping the stocko 18r in it than changing after it passes (if it does )

[mchieff]

I think this is one of those grey area's - different day, different attitude, different person, different answer.
Black and white its a No but the logical answer is yes (its a different head that came out on the car!!)
Roll the dice - why engineer it - there's no engineering requirement its merely tuning the thing so it would pass the applicable emissions (unless your mod means bigger brakes - which should obviously be done BEFORE an engine!!)

[MRMOPARMAN]

ok, how about using AE82 twincam emissions gear (pretty similar to ae86 jdm) which has been put through for testing in australia by toyota. engine wise everything else is same/similar if im not mistaken, apart from engine mounts. rwd stuff bolts up anyways so theres the structural mods side of things cleared.

then the only grey area open to interpretation would be the 'similar power' equation.

oh and if vicroads clears it and your insurance company clears it, how could any part of this simple conversion be wrong?*


*providing you have done everything as per JDM spec car, inc emissions. unless something is stuffed (engine, charcol canister, injectors etc) or modified away from standard, the car will pass emissions for the given year of the vehicle if the EPA does a test.

[parrot]

I'm not saying it is necessarily right, I am just bringing to everyones attention what vicroads position is.

And the vicroads response is black and white, there is no grey.

Simply having an engine number change on your rego sticker doesn't mean vicroads have approved whatever it is you have changed.

Again from my original post, lifted from the Vicroads change of engine page (my bold).

Change of Engine
1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine, have been completed."

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form [PDF 24kb] and provide VicRoads with:

* a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
* an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine.

No grey there.

[MRMOPARMAN]

that bold writing, is that vicroads response, or your response? i view that differently..

also would you be able to PM me the letter that vicroads sent you or atleast the person that responded? i would like to shoot off an email to them.

heres part to lifted straight from vicroads VSI8, part 11, paragraph 1 & 2, in bold.


1.An engine which is of a type offered by the manufaturer as an option for that vehicle may be fitted provided that:

* All other related components including structure, suspension, brakes etc., are the equivalent to those fitted to a vehicle of the same model supplied with that engine type as optional original equipment by the manufacturer; and

* Acceptable evidence is supplied which certifies that these components are fitted in accordance with factory methods and the vehicle in its modified form is safe and complies with applicable regulations for that model vehicle.

it doesnt say that the engine had to be sold in australia, only that it was an option. and vicroads cant play the model code excuse (ie rotor to piston mazda, T engine to K engined corollas, that have different model codes between engine options) as the model codes (AE86) will be the same for JDM bigports and ADM 4ac cars.

all it says is the car needs to be JDM spec to be accepted by vicroads, with the exception of emissions, which is enforced by EPA, so you would have to get it tested, and provide evidence that the JDM cars came with 4age's, and your cars the same.

2. An engine which is not of the same type as offered by the manufacturer of the vehicle as original, but is similar in power, weight, and emission standards to that of the original engine, may be fitted to such a vehicle. If alteration to the vehicle's frame or structure is involved and specially fabricated supports or structures are used, an Approval Certificate must be supplied.

Where it is intended to fit a engine which is significantly different from that offered by the manufacturer as original or as an option. (eg four to six cylinder or six to eight cylinder), then and Approval Certificate is required as evidence that the vehicle in its modified form is safe and meets all the applicable construction and emission regulations for that model. It is recommended that a VASS signitory is consulted before commencement of this type of modification.

if you go by this, the engine as long as its stock and in good health, get proof it passes emissions for a 198x vehicle. the engines have 22kw between them, so are similar in power, similar in weight, do not need structural mods in any form, therefore no VASS required.

[parrot]

Sorry guys, have been down the beach.......

The bold writing is Vicroads from their engine change page, although I did the bolding to emphasise my point.

Link is here

I posted up the actual letter I received in my original post, but will PM it to you Mrmoparman.

[twentyEight]

Would i need a new road worth certificate aswell?

Nope...................

[blaze86vic]

A little off the wall, but is the inspection process there in Australia really that thorough? I know that here in the US it's easy to get away with it. Which is required to do anything to a car. According to our rules you can't increase engine displacement, you can't alter in any way components that effects safety (ie brakes, emissions, exhaust, etc.).

While these are the laws, I would be surprised if most any inspection shops could tell you how many cylinders a car had let alone if anything on it was stock or modified.

[Hurricane]

when i put my 3t into my ke20 i just drove to vic roads, got the new rego sticker made with 3t as the engine and walked out

but yes its not really legal lol close enough thow

cheers,dan

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

I'm not even going to try to shaft the system with my 2jzge into ma61. Straight off to an engineer... should pass easy though.

[MRMOPARMAN]

A little off the wall, but is the inspection process there in Australia really that thorough? I know that here in the US it's easy to get away with it. Which is required to do anything to a car. According to our rules you can't increase engine displacement, you can't alter in any way components that effects safety (ie brakes, emissions, exhaust, etc.).

While these are the laws, I would be surprised if most any inspection shops could tell you how many cylinders a car had let alone if anything on it was stock or modified.

as others have said, as long as the engine looks similar to the previous engine and isnt stolen, its easy to fly by under vicroads noses..

the problem is if you have an accident and your insurance company turns round and say get lost, you didnt comply with vicroads legislation. it wouldnt matter if a vicorads person passed it.. if it doesnt comply with legislation, your stuffed

[GasedT18]

Humpf,

there I was thinking that there was some advantage to building a 3T-GTEU 'onto' existing 3T-C block as the engine number would remain the same but suspected, in a wishful state of denial, that it wouldn't be so easy and notification of turbo would be the clincher as far a regs and certainly insurance is concerned. This was partially fuelled by a Toymodder in Vic who noted that the Police didn't bat an eyelid at the turbo as the engine number on the reg was the same. T-18's with 3T-GTEU's certainly weren't an option offered for sale in Australia. As for JDM specs other than the engine, i.e., brakes, as far as I know the Jap version was identical - I'd like to be proven wrong on this.

I would have thought, given JDM spec T-18s with 3T-GTEUs existed in Japan that this would make for a quick engineers certificate (and insurance) and hence possibly cheaper cert - provided the engine wasn't significantly different in power, i.e., no huge turbo, injectors etc?

I seem to recall that a convertible option was offered by a third party, approved by Toyota, but I think it was in the USA, certainly never seen one in Aust? T-18s are dangerous enough with poor pillar support and side intrusion let alone cutting the roof off and if I'm correct no roll bar - they would have to have significantly strengthened the windshield surround/support I would have though.

So is there any such thing as a quick'n cheap engineers certificate for a stockish 3T-GTE upgrade in a T-18. As I have changed state (Vic - NSW and rego has run out a blue slip will be needed anyway). So roughly what would I expect to pay for eng cert?

I would have thought that roads authority approval even if it didn't strictly meet the 'legislation' would indemnify you unless there is a clause somewhere that states 'approval by roads authority does not necessarily mean such approval meets legislative standards etc' which is pretty silly. If a roads authority gets it wrong I hardly see how the burden of liability can be transferred to the registree.

D

[mgfe]

hey guys

can i ask what happens if you bring a modifed vehicle in from another state already with an engineers certificate???

to vic that is??
ta