'Built' 4AGE starting point

[merc-blue]

I have been talking to my normal few engine builders about there 4AGE knowlage and all recomended different heads/blocks for starting points.
im looking at building a hot road engine
the problem i have is i dont really know whats inside each block and what minor casting differences there are in heads etc

HEADS
I will be looking for 2 or 3 heads to cut up to work out best way to attack ports,
So 16V would make it easy to get a few of the same heads and valvetrain/cams are quite available
but ease of ITBs on 20V makes it a winner a adaptor plate on a 16V for blacktop (larger) ITBs could be used but have head mixed reports
Whats the general deal? what a gathered from bill sherwoods site there isnt a big difference if your going to build it, for slightly warming engines there are better ways to go but when looking big engine its not a huge difference???

BLOCK
I gather the latest block i can get in good nick, the 7 rib? block with oilsquirters
right idea?

CRANK
again a late crank, are they all forged? will be lightened, crack tested, ballanced etc

RODS
will be using prepped 'stock' rods, assuming i use a 4agze (seems the strongest) bottom end the 4agze rods seem like a good deal, agian will be linished, crack tested, shot peened so forth

PISTONS,
simple enough arias or similar forged jobbies to work out to a good comp of 10:1 maybe a touch higher depending on what the combustion chamber looks like and what ignition i end up using.

Am i on the right track? any good articles on casting differences or the best gear to start with for a build?

Cheers
Rohan

[4agerolla]

Have a good look through Billzilla's website, there is a wealth of knowledge shared there!

It looks as though you are on the right track!

[Hen]

I think everything you are asking is open to personal interperetation. Everyone has a different opinion... and on that note I'll give you mine.

Heads - can't comment.
Block - 7rib with squriters is best. And as late as you can, purely so it is newer and less flogged. Though I don't think there are very few people who would ever have discovered the difference in strength between 3 and 7 rib blocks.
Rods - GE and GZE from the same year share rods (this can be backed up by the EPC). Early AE92 were the biggest. Late AE92 and AE101 were slightly smaller.
Crank - All GE are forged. Only difference IMHO is 40 vs 42mm big ends.

Hen

[oldeskewltoy]

Heh.... since this was brought up by someone else.....

It really depends on what you call "mad" power... Harp, harp, harp.... WHAT DO YOU PLAN ON USING THIS FOR??? Looking to win on the dyno? OR under 2 liter autocross? Stop light to stop light? Flat out on the salt flats?? Each "mad" engine is different...

My opinion....for the "perfect" 4AGE 16V shortblock????
20V bare block w 20V oil pump & squirters
early TVIS crank and rods
"signapore" 10 to 1 OEM pistons OR bushed OEM high compression pistons
blacktop flywheel
This combo should SCREAM nearly as well as a blacktop do to the smaller internals, yet stiff block. The light flywheel will help too.

[merc-blue]

i never mentioned anything about mad power.
I refer to a 'hot road' engine as i would call a compertition a engine dry sumped 9000+RPM with full aftermarket internals
I will be looking at pushing past 200 Horse
im not sure what i will be doing as far as under/over bucket shims so may not push past 200 by alot

As for flywheel and such i will be running aChoMo fly with a good single plate clutch

The engine will do quite abit of track work i was tempted to buil a 7A with a set of aftermarket rods but i think that going a 3SGE would be a better option for anything over 1600CC

[jezza323]

why are you guys only thinking of 10:1 CR?

especially if you are going to stay N/A and wanna make decent power i would look at upping the CR, if you are buying forged pistons, its a no brainer to go for 11:1 or higher. with the availability of 98 octane fuel these days i see no reason to stay with 10:1

also good cams will make a world of difference, dont forget to factor those in

[merc-blue]

oh yeah i will deffently be running a set of extreme cams,
As i said i will push higher depending on what the combustion chamber ends up like and what ignition i end up with

[jezza323]

if you are going "extreme" cams, whatever that means....you will definately want a higher CR

im building up a 5efe (paseo) motor atm, aiming for 11.5:1 CR and 272 - 8mm cams, no reason i wouldnt go higher CR except that it would require custom pistons ($$$$)

EDIT: will also be running quad throttles, but only 40mm

[merc-blue]

by extreame i mean not a off the shelf cam and i havnt work out teh cam spec yet

[jezza323]

you will probably find there is an off the shelf cam to suit if you use a 16v head. plenty of 4A cams around to choose from. off the shelf cams will likely be better than something custom.

[Vios-GT_07]

why are you guys only thinking of 10:1 CR?

especially if you are going to stay N/A and wanna make decent power i would look at upping the CR, if you are buying forged pistons, its a no brainer to go for 11:1 or higher. with the availability of 98 octane fuel these days i see no reason to stay with 10:1

also good cams will make a world of difference, dont forget to factor those in

that's exactly my contribution a lot of cars these days come with higher than 10:1 compression.. my 1NZ does 10.5:1 and i'm pretty sure my smallport is capable of holding 10.8 to 11:1 easily.. not sure what it is standard but i can say, at an average of 215 psi across the cylinders it'd "up there" somewhere..

one thing about extreme cams (big duration)..it's not very on-road friendly..

[GTI-TRD]

stock comp ratio on smallport is 10.3 so you're talking of less comp... skim head and go for 11.5.

go for the oil-squirter bock if you can for peace of mind if nothing else

cams will need plenty of lift & duration for 200+hp look at 304's or maybe more with formula atlantic style 11mm lift hehe

also a smallport head can be ported larger when your cleaning up casting dags etc & is recommended on bills site as being good for upto 200hp

[Gavatron]

Don't forget to be going the shimless bucket conversion when you use those huge cams.

[merc-blue]

GTI, yeah there will be porting done, i will chop open a head to have a look at port shapes etc, and will port a second head (with OS valves) to suit

Gav, i have been looking at shim unders,

Yeah i ballsed up on the comp, will be looking at 11 or more

[Gavatron]

Gav, i have been looking at shim unders

Why bother with shim unders?

Guide here for 1SZ shimless buckets