roll cage info (design,cams,rta)

[mc68]

So why is it that we can legally fit side intrusion bars in all cars on our cages?

im yet to see a cams approved cage without side intrusion bars! :\

[oldcorollas]

i even talked to those bond roll bar people and the bloke reckons that ur not legally allowed to run harnesses on the street. makes me kinda wonder how good those cages are if he says crap like that.

thats absolutely true.. for cars that have ADR'd seatbelts...

the problem is that the ADR says LAP SASH belt.. which specifically excludes 4 or 6 point harnesses... it is meant to stop 2 point lap belts... but a harness is better..

for pre KE20 corollas (ie KE10 and early coronas etc) you CAN have harness because the ADR does nto apply.... under previous rules...

but kids MUST wear a harness strange huh?

[Ta2272]

Side intrusion bars are not legal for street use, under QLD laws, My local engeeneer would not register my race car with them and, the roll cage builders in nambour said they can make roll cages with rmovable side intrusion bars for street use.

There is a certified workshop in nambour QLD which can fit a roll cage to your vehicle, they can also provide a cams log book and make it all road legal, To be road legal it needs to have removable side intrusion bars. I.E removed bars.


I have a cams approved alloy roll cage in my datsun 1600 (though i kno longer think alloy is allowed to be used for cams standards). it has side intrusion bar on drivers side but not on passengers side, no passenger seat though say mabye thats why it isnt needed.

Jason

[thechuckster]

i think that engineers have a fair amount of latitute for grey areas like roll cages, harnesses, fixed seats, gutted interior, etc.

for instance, if you have a fair dinkum rally car (and you need a registered car for competition) then the engineer is probably going to accept a fair amount of stuff (e.g. exposed bonnet catches, roll cage with sidebars, internal brake-bias adjuster, after-market ECU, etc) that a road going car will be refused for.

Cool1 work at a shop that modifies vehicles for rally/competition use. Likewise TerryO - who is a track/tarmac racer with a business for road and track-going cars - does engineering/mod-plates work on road-going and track-only race cars. Both are likely to work on (and approve) cars that might be rejected for day-to-day use.

To further reduce the likelihood of race cars being turned into street cars, importing and registering rally-only or competition cars is limited to CAMS license holders who actively undertake competition. Otherwise any idiot could import a GT4 Celica fitted it will all kinds of performance/race/rally stuff, say it's destined for the forests or track but let it spend its life driving (probably unsafely) around suburbia.

[Forcefed6]

Side intrusion bars are not legal for street use, under QLD laws, My local engeeneer would not register my race car with them and, the roll cage builders in nambour said they can make roll cages with rmovable side intrusion bars for street use.

Good to see that there is some one else here in Queenland that understands the regulations...

I will also get a copy of the regulations and host them on Monday, just to settle right from wrong.

[Ta2272]

I agree with that, i think that some people engeeneers/ people doing roadworthy's will overlook some elegal parts of a car as you said, thought they may let them slip through they are still not legal for the road,
If pulled over they can get done for it, i know the chances are slim of them getting into trouble driving only very little to events and all.

Thought if you looking at putting such roll cages to a daily driver it may be hard to get such a vehicle registerd it may be worth looking in to it further.

[Cool1]

Ok guys I have the official word. The information I posted above was incorrect! The blue book does not allow the fitment of side intrusion bars in a street legal car!
However you guys above(Ta272 and Forcefed) are also wrong. There is a loop hole in the system that allows fitment of side intrusion bars.
The loop hole is within the kit car rules. Some/most kit cars require side intrusion bars. So the role cages we fit with intrusion bars, we use the same specs as to what is fitted in the kits.
The Transport Dept in any state of Australia allows us to do this and they sign off on our paper work to say so.

No ifs buts or maybes, that is all official. Anything negitive said toward this information, myself or the company I work for will receive negitive rep.

[takai]

No ifs buts or maybes, that is all official. Anything negitive said toward this information, myself or the company I work for will receive negitive rep.

Nothing further to add, except that i do not believe that the rep system was designed to be able to be used as a blackmail device.

[Cool1]

I agree, but that was not my point.
If people want to argue those facts with they are welcome to. But I wont put up with people simply saying "thats wrong", "your company is doing illegal things" etc etc! Understand?

[oldcorollas]

The loop hole is within the kit car rules. Some/most kit cars require side intrusion bars. So the role cages we fit with intrusion bars, we use the same specs as to what is fitted in the kits.

so does that mean the cars you do it to are engineered as kit cars (ie ICV)? or they don't have side intrusion bars standard?

curious because real spoontahs don't have them, and having a loophole to fit a front half of cage, or at least side intrusion bars, would be a good thing... but having to register as an ICV is not particularly appealing esp with current emissions and crash tests...

[Cool1]

No no, they are not engineered as kits cars.
Just that the Transport allows(more to the point makes you) to fit intrusion bars in the kit cars. The intrusion bars have to be fitted to the guide lines that Transport setout for the car to be "street registered"! And that there is the loop hole.
They have guide lines for intrusion bars to be fitted to street registered cars.

[takai]

But from what it was explained to me a while ago was that the intrusion bar ruling was only applicable when the intrusion bar was not part of the door, or not able to be fitted as part of the door. I.e. Clubmans which have no doors.

[oldcorollas]

thats probably the intent of the ruling, but if they are getting approval from the top and it is allowable in all states, then fairy nuff...

in NSW i have heard of no such instances of this being allowed tho.... (except on older cars that predate current restrictions)..

reading the QLD rules that chuckster posted earlier, it looks like you can have a full external roll cage as long as it doesn't stick out too much

might look fugly but...

[Cool1]

takai, I dont understand what you mean?
We fit intrusion bars in the Cobra doors and other similar cars. And we fit intrusion bars on our cages which are fitted to any other car.

[takai]

Mmm, the precedent seems to be that here in the southern states the side-intrusion bar ruling is interpreted as aftermarket intrusion bars placed within the doors, rather than integral with the cage. Certainly when i was looking at getting a full cage road-reg it wasnt feasable under the regs at the time (2005 ACT), and the only way i could get side intrusion bars was bolt in on the cage, and this was predominantly due to the AE86 having pre-existing side-intrusion bars integral with the doors.

However, I have seen several ICVs of different sorts registered with cage-integral (as opposed to door-integral) side intrusion bars, and the explanation given was that they didnt have door-integral bars so that it was allowed to be welded into the cage. Fairly inane i know, but that was the explanation given to me after about 3hrs on the phone to ACT RTA.